Ancient and ArchaeologyΒ permalink
Nero on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ
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Message 1.Β
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Thursday, 21st September 2006
It was a good stab at portraying this mad emperor. Still I do have a few serious criticisms. The actor was relatively youthful and fresh-faced. Portraits of Nero show him to be very round-faced even as a youth, and rather gross later in his reign.
I don't know if I missed it but there seemed to be nothing of his mother Agripinna, who after all engineered him into power. He later had her killed - was that even mentioned?
One other thing not mentioned was his decision to make the whole of Greece tax-free.
The end of the program annoyed me. It stated that Rome realised that it would in future have to avoid choosing emperors from a narrow group of people, but would instead have to choose emperors on merit. The next emperor, Vespasian, seized power by the one merit of being able to beat others in battle. Titus succeeded him because he was the Vespasian's son. Not really much choice on merit. -
Message 2
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Thursday, 21st September 2006
That explains why they loved Nero in Greece and were gathering to listen to his artistic creations and clapping like idiots! I wonder how much of lobbying there was going on!
Nonetheless one has always to remember that Nero had started with a lot of dreams for Rome and had really good intentions. Do not forget that many of Romans at least in the beggining were much in favour of him as they saw a young, well-educated and talented man that promised a lot. Of course very soon they were disappointed as this young man surrounded by a weird circle of people became afraid of his shadow trying to stick to power.
I do not know if Romans learnt anything out of that (like giving the position to the best), they thought of doing so earlier also during the Republic or the dictatorships. Maybe the documentary meant that Romans would not anymore search for someone form a historic Roman family but could be any Roman (especially from the army ranks). Could be true but then most emperors, one way or another would try to leave the leadership to their sons or other relatives as there would be no voting or some other formal procedure (i.e. no formal hereditary coronation but occasionally an informal one). -
Message 3
Posted by ElistanOnVacation (U3933150) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
I'd agree that it made a half decent fist at exploring Nero, though it was too light on his more grandiose actions (limits of budget?) and didn't explore his mother at all. All it seems of said was that before the fire he was sane and somewhat rational, and after his indulgence of his vision for a new Rome drove him mad. Or something like that.
The ending was awful, though. A real trite 'And they all lived happily ever after...' summation that bore no relation to reality. If it was after the death of Domitian than a case could be the selection of the best man statement, but not in Vespasian's case. He was not a bad emperor, but his succession was more due to his canniness in timing, as well as the fact that both the danubian and his own middle eastern legions stimped for him, whilst Vitellius only had the loyalty of the Germanic legions. -
Message 4
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
It wasn't too bad I thought, considering they only had an hour and it had to be entertaining enough to appeal to Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One viewers. But I do think that it's a mistake to not have the episodes running in a correct chronological sequence -next week is Julius Caesar.
I find it quite strange that the Beeb don't have a page for this programme on this website as they've obviously spent a bit of money on it.
RF -
Message 5
Posted by doctor diamond (U2053921) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
I really enjoyed the programme. My knowledge of Roman history is vague to say the least so I always take programmes such as this with a large pinch of salt.It's refreshing to read on here that, for the most part, it was pretty accurate.
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Message 6
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
'entertaining enough to appeal to Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One viewers'.
Yes, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ has been dumbed down so much that Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 sets a new low standard for empty, anti-intellectual, entertainment. -
Message 7
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
'entertaining enough to appeal to Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One viewers'.
Yes, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ has been dumbed down so much that Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 sets a new low standard for empty, anti-intellectual, entertainment.
That is what I like in English. They want some class! -
Message 8
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Hi Fascinating,
I may have been unintentionally condescending to Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One viewers there! Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One is a mainstream channel and therefore competes with ITV1 and the other commercial channels, and a viewer watching Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One expects entertainment. The channel's emphasis is definitely on entertainment as opposed to education, and the fact that "Nero" was a docu-drama highlights that point.
Yes, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ has been dumbed down so much that Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 sets a new low standard for empty, anti-intellectual, entertainment.Β
It may be dumbed down but it won't win the low standard award just yet - well at least until it decides to devote 00:30-05:30 to inane "interactive" game shows...
RF -
Message 9
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Nikolaos, I am tired and dopey today, you will have to explain what you mean.
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Message 10
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
rainbow,
'Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One is a mainstream channel and therefore competes with ITV1 and the other commercial channels'
GRRR. THIS MAKES ME SO ANGRY.
THE Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ IS GIVEN Β£3 BILLION A YEAR SO THAT IT HAS NO NEED TO COMPETE!!!!
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Message 11
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
I like that attitude of a substantial part of the English society that will not accept low quality things in arts and on television (please do not mention to me about the Sun or somethig). English public opinion critiscism breaks bones. That is what makes Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ documentaries of such a high quality unlike what happens in other countries where documentaries are full of political messages according to who is making the documentary. In England there are fewer political messages, fewer tacky references to raise the interest and more facts presented in the most possible neutral way (absolute neutrality is impossible but English documentaries are the closest you can get). In France I only liked the documentaries of Nicolas Hulot, an environmentalist that travels throughout the world, simply superb images and an honest and deep respect for nature and cultures - but all the rest was mediocre and politically painted like in my country also).
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Message 12
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Fascinating,
It is completely wrong, but the controllers obviously feel differently to viewers. They almost always aim for the lowest common denominator in the interests of viewing figures and broadcast absolute drivel. Just look at what's generally shown during the peak 19:00-22:00 period each day - there's no justification for the absolute mind-numbing dross they show. It's now just a chef-consumer-celebrity-soap-cop-reality-lottery-quizshow crapfest.
I hardly ever watch Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One nowadays, as it seems to be ITV1 without the adverts. Of the other channels, Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Two has been unashamedly dumbed down, Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Three is repeat-after-repeat of sub-Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One crud and only Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Four seems to maintain some sort of credibilty.
Even Channel 5 show better quality documentaries than Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One nowadays - I remember a lovely little program on the various crosses built by Edward I in memory of his wife Eleanor of Castille. Would you see something of that quality on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ One?
E_Nik - We don't expect too much class, but we sure as hell expect quality!
Cheers,
RF -
Message 13
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Hi E_Nik,
The problem is that the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ are seriously dumbing down their history documentaries, and seem to be pandering to the whims of whoever they co-produce them with. I'm all for making history accessible and popular, but not at the expense of truth and quality. It appears that the order of the day, is to fit as much inane reconstruction and CGI as possible at the expense of actual information. Have a look at the "Lost Cities" thread lower down for an example of this tripe-production in action.
The Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ are rapidly losing their claim to be the benchmark that other broadcasters aim for with their documentaries...
Cheers,
RF -
Message 14
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Rainbow, and Nikolaos, thanks for the replies.
Now that I have cooled down a little, I can actually see the sense in having one channel that is mainly devoted to entertainment. But a program should not be advertised as a docu-drama (which should mean 'facts presented in dramatic form') and then have unsubstantiated assertions put in just for dramatic effect.
Actually I love the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ, which is why I hate people coming into the organisation and ruining things by trying to make programs just like those that appear on other channels.
Rainbow, you summary of the channels is just how I see it. You do realise the folly of the whole situation don't you? Before we had an entertaining Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 and a mainly serious Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ2. Both were dumbed down, but Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ3 and Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ4 were needlessly created. Quality programming goes to Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ4 (along with much dross), and Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ2 is mainly left with low-quality stuff and plenty of repeats. It would have been better to just have Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 and 2 and fill those stations with good shows.
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Message 15
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Fascinating,
Exactly - why on earth change something that was working fine? The quality programmes on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Four should have been commissioned for Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Two. The Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ has an archive of documentaries and programmes devoted to the arts that is the envy of major broadcasters throughout the world. Why couldn't this back-catalog be used as a major source for Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Four? Surely paying repeat-rights for an existing - quality - program is better value? There's so many series I'd love to see that I missed first time around, so why can't they show "Ascent of Man" and "Civilisation"? They're now re-repeating "I, Claudius" within a couple of months of its last repeat, so the viewing figures must have been high to warrant this. I'm not saying they should devote the whole channel to quality repeats, but they should at least utilise the archive more!
Cheers,
RF -
Message 16
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
This is the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ's Statements of Programming Policy for 2006/07:
It makes for ummm... "interesting" reading, and gives the service remits for each channel. But it's worth noting when reading their promises of hours dedicated to certain areas of the remit:
"Unless otherwise stated, hours commitments throughout this document include originations, repeats and acquisitions"
RF -
Message 17
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Rainbow, I have the excellent I, Claudius on video tape. It is amazing that this was never shown for 30 years, when it was, in my opinion, just about the most brilliant historical TV drama ever made. From the comments of one producer on Radio 4, it seems the current establishment has a low opinion of it (not enough CGI and OTT melodrama I suspect).
I think you can buy the other series that you mention, on DVD. As you say, the presence of the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ4 channel means there is a suitable place for these to be repeated. -
Message 18
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
I was taken aback, yes, to find that next week's episode is on Julius Caesar. Would it really have been that difficult to show the episodes the right way round? I mean, the series purports to be about the 'Rise and Fall of Rome'. At this rate, the final episode will be about 'Romulus and Remus', rather than Romulus Augustulus, the last (Western) Roman Emperor.!
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Message 19
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Hi Alaric,
I hope it isn't because the "Nero" episode was the best, and the rest of the series goes careering downhill like a Hannibalic elephant crossing the Alps!
I'd be really interested to know who or what the other episodes focus on. If it's Empire-based then we'll likely get one for each of the Julio-Claudian Emperors that people will have heard of, plus Julius himself as they'll all make for entertaining TV.
One problem I can envisage, is that a one hour docu-drama is not a format that would easily lend itself to covering long periods. For example, a number of different personalities not contemporary with each other, could make for an incohesive episode.
Anyway, we should arrange a sweepstake on what the remaining episodes will be devoted to. No employees of the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ or their immediate family allowed to enter!
Cheers,
RF -
Message 20
Posted by Plancenoit (U3148592) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
Gentlemen/Women, Please!!!
Give the Beeb some credit.
The latest attempt tackles subjects which are dear to all our hearts, but when appealing to a wide audience it is necessary to apply a bit of artistic license to make it palatable and interesting to Joe Public.
I thought it was the kind of docudrama that will endure, largely because of it's overall accuracy and realism. It stuck to the basic facts enough to make it interesting, and enough to enlighten.
There are MANY that will argue now, is all this Roman Empire historical pish really relevant today?? Of course it is. And any prog which reignites peoples interest in times gone by has to be a good thing.
Anything that stimulates peoples interest in personal or general history, should be encouraged.
Dan
Baron P -
Message 21
Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Friday, 22nd September 2006
I havent quite got through the whole Nero episode yet, but I am rather surprised by some of the rather broad strokes covering Nero up to the Great Fire, and then to find out that the program is not going to run in chrono order seems jumpy to me.
If it is about the Rise and then Fall, then surely you would start with pre-Ceasar era first, that would be the broad stroke episode, then Caesar, Augustus, and upwards then through the Imp's they want to cover, but jumping around left right and centre doesnt seem to make much sense to me, oh well, stick with it anyway and see what happens -
Message 22
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Saturday, 23rd September 2006
Rainbow, the Radio Times tells us what the future episodes will be. They are (not in broadcast order).
Revolution (Tiberius Gracchus, 133 BC)
Rebellion (Vespasian and the Jewish revolt 66AD)
Caesar(49-44BC)
Constantine (324-337AD)
Fall of Rome (Honorious, 410AD).
So, while we may complain about the content, I give the Beeb 8/10 for covering such a wide period.
I would have liked one episode covering the peaceful settled 2nd century AD - say the life of Marcus Aurelius (Trailer "ROME! - Sex! Scandal! WAr! Murder! NONE of these things in this episode about a thoughtful emperor who reigned in a time of peace.")
And one more episode on one of the battling 3rd century emperors would have been great (Aurelian perhaps, or Septimius Severus).
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