Ancient and ArchaeologyΒ permalink
Why were Egyptian gods so important?
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Message 1.Β
Posted by carolynlouise (U5269687) on Thursday, 10th August 2006
Hi I'm doing a school project on Ancient Egyptian Gods. I was wondering if anyone has some thoughts about why were Egyptian gods so important to the Egyptian people.
It would be great to hear from some of you. -
Message 2
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Thursday, 10th August 2006
The short answer is that the Egyptian gods did things (not like gods these days). The Nile flooded because the gods told it to. The sun came up because the gods made it. Crops grew because the gods made the land fertile. The Egyptians were ignorant of why these things really happened and genuinely believed that the gods gave them the necessary things of life. A farmer along the banks of the Nile could work hard, care for his crops and weed them, but if the Nile failed to flood, then they went hungry - the irrigation systems just couldn't cope. Their entire lifestyle was based on an event beyond the control of man at the time, so they assumed gods did it.
Good luck with the project. -
Message 3
Posted by jonsparta (U3871420) on Thursday, 10th August 2006
you must also remember that the Pharoh was the condut by which the world of man was the world of gods interacted. the Pharoh for most of their reign buit grand tombs in order to gain their place with the gods. he was like a middle man and through himand the priestly caste the world functioned.
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Message 4
Posted by Kevin_Egyptology (U5273216) on Thursday, 10th August 2006
This question is like why do people believe in God today? Religion is societies way of giving explanations to concepts they dont understand. Egyptians didnt have dentists and so praised the goddess Hathor when they had a toothache... Sounds silly now-a-days but thats because we understand what causes tooth-ache and can prevent it.
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Message 5
Posted by carolynlouise (U5269687) on Thursday, 10th August 2006
Thanks so much with the help but what I meant was why were they so important to Ancient Egyptians?
Because i am doing it Ancient Egyptians.
I am only foucsing on 4 types of Egytian gods and they are: Maat the gods of justice,truth,harmony
and order. Also Ra i need some more info on him.
Osiris need more information on him as well.
And finally Isis the wife to Osiris and the queen of the Earth. She is also known as the mother of all goddesses.
Hope to hear a reply. -
Message 6
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 11th August 2006
though not answering the above questions, I have to note done that many Egyptians, like many people in other cultures, regarded Gods in a more 'nominal' way and did not necessarily believed in the existence of them as described in myths.
To be more specific and give an example, we read too often in ancient greek texts the phrase "if God wants", "God decided", "it's God's will" showing no evidence of referring to any specific God (as one should expect in a polytheistic religion). But then one casn say that all these ancient Greek writers were educated enough to understand many things (many of them recognised that Gods as described in myths had been actually heros of past millenia that passed on to myths as gods).
However, as one friend of mine who is a specialist in Egyptology mentioned, there are texts where even egyptian commoners mention similar phrases like the above - thus unless this is the addition of an educated writer, it is a suspicion of a religion with a polytheistic face and a monotheistic content.
It should not anyone if there was a substantial number of atheists considering the pillaging of graves and temples that was going on since those times. Sometimes religious beliefs and their effect on people and their behaviour are over-estimated - afterall this hippy christian religion of 'love' only brought more wars and misery, used mainly as a political weapon.
The same thing applied in those times: pharaos used religion as a political tool, then if it did not serve they changed it without a second thought (e.g. Akenaton). -
Message 7
Posted by Artorious (U1941655) on Monday, 14th August 2006
Hi Carolyn
I'd like to put a more spiritual view of the Egyptian Gods. The Egyptians appeared to relate the Gods to every day things around them, including their own bodies. So if they wanted to cure a part of the body they would invoke the God that represented that part, or if they wanted to find something they would invoke the God associated with finding things. Our 'One God' belief encompases all these things into one 'being'. Some say the Egyptian(Roman,Greek,Celtic etc) way with multiple Gods was a more efficient and direct way of utilising this contact with the self and nature.
An analogy would be like going to a Chiropodist for a foot ailment intead of going to a regular doctor.
Ultimatley though it is belief that empowers the illusiary Gods including the demonic ones. This is one reason the Jehova witnesses annoy me, as by believing and talking about Satan they empower that belief.(although the bad press that Satan has aquired is another matter)....hmm maybe I have said too much.. -
Message 8
Posted by Kevin_Egyptology (U5273216) on Monday, 14th August 2006
You asked for specific gods, well here's a few points you might find useful (?)
Re was the sun-god. He travelled the sky during the hours of the day and travelled through the Amduat (underworld) during the 12 hours of the night. At each hour he faced demons and obsticles that he had to overcome, and at the 12th hour, had to face Apep (Aphosis) a serpent god of the underworld. If Re failed against Apep the sun would not rise the next day. A theory reminiscent of the Egyptian concept of Order Vs Chaos, something that Ma'at played an important part.
There are many prayers to the sun-god can be found in Miriam Lichtheims Literature of Ancient Egypt Volumes I-III. Also see Faulkeners Book of the Amduat for the 12hours of the night.
Osiris was the god of the underworld. Always depicted mummified and usually with a green complexion. He was killed and dismembered by his brother Seth, put back together by his wife Isis and sister Nebthys and then mummified by Anubis.
Isis did not have a cult established until the Late Period, and so all myths concerning Isis were in the context of other dieties. She was the wife/sister of Osiris and mother of Horus. -
Message 9
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Tuesday, 15th August 2006
I am no Jehovah's Witness, but I believe in the 'existence' of a spirit being (well, 'fallen archangel' to be exact) we can call 'Satan' (which btw means 'the Accuser'). I was not aware that he/it formed a major part of what the JW's go on about.
I find it odd that 'Satan' has been written out of some people's Christianity these days. He certainly was there in the eminent author C.S. Lewis's take on matters spiritual. He is right there at the start of Jesus' ministry, tempting Him in the wilderness. And Jesus certainly has words to say about him later on. Now if Jesus is the Son of God, God and Man at the same time (i.e the basic belief of Christians), he isn't likely to be wrong about the existence of what we call The Enemy.
I can well understand the modern rejection of a mediaeval 'red guy with horns and tail' image of Satan. Not what the Bible talks about, though. In fact it suggests his abilty to masquerade as what he once was, an Angel of Light (and I don't think this just, or primarily, means 'physical', if you can talk about 'physical' re. a spirit being) so as to deceive many. -
Message 10
Posted by Bogbrain (U5117266) on Tuesday, 15th August 2006
What on earth has message 9 got to do with the original thread?
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Message 11
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Tuesday, 15th August 2006
The Greeks and Romans often matched foreign gods with their own (this is known as "Interpretatio graeca" and "interpretatio romana") so both obviously took the Egyptian deities seriously. Osiris and Dionysus, and Ammon and Zeus are good examples of Greek pairings, and Isis and Cybele a Roman one.
RF -
Message 12
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Tuesday, 15th August 2006
It has very little to do with it! It was a tangent; a reply to the end bit of Message 7. Artorious seems to think that if you beleive in a god/devil/demon it somehow makes the being more of a reality/stronger/something like that (correct me if I'm wrong, Artorious). I would argue that God and Satan are real, and that believing in either or both of them (or not) does not affect their 'existence' one way or the other (though calling upon either does, I believe, allow them to influence your life, for good in the one case and ill in the other).
My take on Egyptian gods is that they are no more interesting/significant than the gods of other pagan religions (as a 'Brit' I personally find the Germanic gods and Celtic gods of our ancestors much more interesting than Anubis, Osiris, Ra etc.).
By the way, it is conventional to use a small 'g' when taking about 'gods' (i.e. those of polytheistic religions like that of Ancient Egypt, and a big 'G' when talking about the One God (YHWH, Allah) of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. -
Message 13
Posted by Eliezer, the Irish pennywhistler (U4824016) on Thursday, 17th August 2006
Beyond having to pay a truckload of taxes to the Priestly Establishment, what makes you think that the Egyptian gods were important to the Egyptian people?
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Message 14
Posted by Kevin_Egyptology (U5273216) on Thursday, 17th August 2006
Well for starters excavation of the workers villages has provided archaeologists with protective amulets of Bes and Tawaret, protectors of children. If the gods weren't important to the everyday Egyptian people, why have special niches in the house for home-worship?
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Message 15
Posted by Artorious (U1941655) on Thursday, 17th August 2006
Hi Alaric,
I agree with most of what you have said. Your understanding of the demonising of Satan clearly shows you have studied the subject. I see him more as the negative pole (of physical existence), and hence why he has been seen in a 'negative' sense and thence demomised by the Church. Whereas `God' is the positive pole (spiritual or ethereal existence). This is mostly Theosophy. The Buddhist and Vedantic would say both are illusiary...But as you may know,talking of such things in a non spiritual forum may not be wise. -
Message 16
Posted by Artorious (U1941655) on Thursday, 17th August 2006
Hi Kevin,
Niches in the house for home worship is as old as time and still continues. From thousands of years ago when people buried their ancestors in their own house, then dug them up and took them with them when they moved, to now, as I sit here typing and over my right shoulder on the wall resides Jesus on a cross sitting on top of my central heating timer. And down stairs Anpu(Anubis) sits looking toward my door. In another corner a Greek warrior in Bronze holds his spear, next to him my long sword rests in it's scabbard and my Viking Helmet sits staring out. In another corner Henry V celebrates his vicroty at Agincourt. Many still have their niches. Didnt realise I had quite so many until I typed this out. -
Message 17
Posted by Eliezer, the Irish pennywhistler (U4824016) on Friday, 18th August 2006
<<< Well for starters excavation of the workers villages has provided archaeologists with protective amulets of Bes and Tawaret, protectors of children. If the gods weren't important to the everyday Egyptian people, why have special niches in the house for home-worship? >>>
Off the top of my head, that's a small sample, those are not the "major" gods, and protective amulets sound like simple superstitions - not the gods being important to the everyday Egyptian people.
Hey - I'm only raising the issue. Convince me! -
Message 18
Posted by Kevin_Egyptology (U5273216) on Friday, 18th August 2006
Artorious,
You have a fair point, I too have canopic jars in my window-sill and an extract from the Book of the Dead on my living room wall. These items don't mean I believe in the afterlife, and they definatly won't guarantee me a safe transition, I have them for decoration!
Its true that the ancients could have used these items for the same purposes as us, merely convention rather than a true belief of their functionality, however I do not believe this to be the case... I may be wrong? -
Message 19
Posted by Artorious (U1941655) on Friday, 18th August 2006
Hi Kevin,
Yes, I think the ancients would have taken things abit more seriously than we do. It depends on how much belief and faith they had in the items as to wether these items helped in any empowering way. Egyptian God worship had evolved over thousands of years, much longer than our current beliefs so their Gods would have been very empowered and or powerful to them. Much the reason they are still empowered today... by me having Anpu as my protector and you having a papyrus text on your wall. Even after nearly 10 thousand years the Egyptian Gods are still remembered and honoured. Hence you see the power they had. -
Message 20
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Sunday, 20th August 2006
Carolynlouise; Read the first reply to your message, then try looking on Wikipedia, or read
'Gods of Ancient Egypt' by Barbara Watterson.
Just ignore the others. It's very rude of them to go off and play on their own instead of answering your perfectly sensible and reasonable question. -
Message 21
Posted by PaulaG (U3004479) on Thursday, 7th September 2006
From the heart.......
They believed in them becaue without them the fear of the unknown would have been unbearable.
The belief that there was some Great Power that they could go to for help, fo any reason, gave them hope.
Perhaps there was a superior group of people, perhaps not, but there was always HOPE to banish FEAR.
We 'know' all the answers, these days and are fast loosing the need for a God, at least, some of us are.............. -
Message 22
Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Thursday, 7th September 2006
I think one could extend the question to 'Why is any god/religion so important?'
Many possible reasons for this. I think it was Neitzche who said humans have an innate capacity or even need for spirituality, much like a need for social interaction, shelter etc. The ancients needed some way of explaining natural phenonema such as childbirth, sunrise, death etc.
Why is religion so important in the modern era? Well, in my opinion that's probably got more to do with issues like socialisation, inclusion, nationalism and the like.
Given that our society has pretty much had the universe explained to us and yet there are still fundamental religions wielding power over millions of minds that religion will always be with us and the gods will never die. -
Message 23
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Friday, 8th September 2006
Do you really think that we 'have the Universe explained'? When even in the realm of astrophysics we are finding there are things like 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' that we could never have guessed at even a few decades ago? The new discoveries in astronomy, etc. have led some astronomers and physcicists, Fred Hoyle being a notable example, to believe in an overriding directive 'purpose' behind it all (which many of them do not go as far as calling 'God', though in my opinion they might as well do).
I am amazed in any case that the scientific understanding is attempted to be applied to 'God'. Science cannot 'do' philosophy or theology: that is not what it is for. And 'God' will not be a mere subject for curiosity or scientific speculation.
The Jewish and Christian understanding of 'God' is as one who chooses to reveal himself (his nature, character, etc.) to humans, and as a Christian I of course believe that he has done just that, primarily via becoming the man Jesus Christ.
I believe in an innate 'need' for 'God' in us, which lies dormant in many and may well be filled by 'made up gods' in societies like that of Ancient Egypt if the people concerned lack revelation of the True God.
Please note that I am not arguing for a rejection of science - far from it, and I am not a 'fundamentalist' as you probably understand the term, or a 'Young Earth Creationist'. -
Message 24
Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Friday, 8th September 2006
Hi Alaric
I wrote that we've 'pretty much' had the universe explained. I doubt we'll ever get a true picture of every aspect of reality but we've certainly come along way from when myth explained natural phenomena, which is the most likely reason for the origins of religion.
The problem with religion is that it is not empirical but faith based so i don't think there will ever be a resolution between the two.
With regards to your point that science cannot do philosophy, why should it? Surely philospohy can fight its own corner. Same arguement with theosoophy. Why should empiricists need to prove the existance of god? Surely that's for those of faith to ponder.
I find your assertion that other religions 'lack revelation of the true god' slightly worrying. How do you know that your god is not one of the 'made up gods'? -
Message 25
Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Friday, 8th September 2006
Whoops - should have read 'theology', Madame Blavatsky has no place here.
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Message 26
Posted by U5442508 (U5442508) on Sunday, 10th September 2006
Sorry to but in but this reminds me of a Catholic familiy I once knew.An Irish friend of mine hung several pictures of saints around her childrens necks to protect them, and had a niche in the house with a "Madonna"(Holy Mother of God)which always had candles burning, and she often prayed to the "Holy Mother" for aid and assistance. So not much has changed just the name of the God, and considering Jesus was not a deity then, it seems the tradition has carried along the line, from Egypt to modern day Christians.
But back to Egypt, I personally think the Egyptians knew something that we don't know,though what it is remains obscure.
appy
<quote>Message posted by Kevin_Egyptology
Well for starters excavation of the workers villages has provided archaeologists with protective amulets of Bes and Tawaret, protectors of children. If the gods weren't important to the everyday Egyptian people, why have special niches in the house for home-worship?
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