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West Saxon Ascendancy.
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Sunday, 2nd July 2006
From 825 to 829 AD Ecgbert, king of Wessex brought about an astonishing change in the fortune of Wessex. In 825 he defeated Beornwolf of Mercia at Ellendum (Wroughton). He followed up by gaining control of Kent, surrey, Sussex and Essex. Following two unsuccessful Mercian invasions of East Anglia, in 829 Ecgbert invaded Meria drove the king Wiglaf out. He forced the Northumbrians to submit to him at Dore and in 830 campaigned against the Welsh.
It used to be assumed that West Saxon ascendancy continued from then onwards until the Viking invasion saw only Wessex left but in fact in 830 Wiglaf was restored in Mercia and regained control of Essex and parts of Berkshire.
How was it that Wessex were able to suddenly gain the ascendancy and then lose it?
The Earliest English Kings by D.P.Kirby suggests that this was achieved through Carolingian support. He points to Ecgbert having been an exile in the Carolingian court and his later contact with Louis the Pious. He suggests that it was very likely that Ecgbert gained the throne due to Carolingian support. In 830 a revolt broke out against Louis which could explain the withdrawal of support and why Ecgbert then lost his ascendant position and the Anglo-saxon chronicle was hardly going to boast that Ecgbert’s achievements were only due to the Franks.
Any thoughts? -
Message 2
Posted by Huscarl (U1753368) on Sunday, 2nd July 2006
Hi Tim
The sparse coverage of this era that I read, suggested that Egbert's Frankish support had dried up, thus Wiglaf was more powerful by comparison and able to drive Egbert back.
Also, Egbert's armies were now divided by the renewed raids of the 'northmen'.
I suppose the ASC has always had it's bias and felt too demoralised to bother recording Egbert's decline and of his Frankish support- just as the later ASC scribes didn't record the last few battles of 871 (the year of 'nine battles')after the Danes began to get the upper hand, or at least 'possess the field'? -
Message 3
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Tuesday, 4th July 2006
Hi Ironaxe. It is certainly true that the ASC chronicle is quite sparce for the reign of Ecgbert. It is really only by reading charters etc that historians have been able to pick up the Mercian side; gret pity they left no equivalent.
regards
Tim -
Message 4
Posted by Mr Pedant (U2464726) on Tuesday, 4th July 2006
What sort of Frankish support, financial?
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Message 5
Posted by Huscarl (U1753368) on Tuesday, 4th July 2006
Possibly, pedant, though perhaps more likely it was purely military aid due to their kinship. Wessex was a reasonably wealthy kingdom even then.
Don't forget, King Egbert's eldest son (the future King Aethelwulf) for his second wife married Judith, a princess of the W.Franks - confusingly, she went on to marry her husband's eldest son(future King Aethelbald- Alfred's eldest brother)! -
Message 6
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Tuesday, 4th July 2006
The book that suggested it that I referred to in my original post does not define it but it could perhaps have been a mixture of troops, equipment and money
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Message 7
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Tuesday, 5th May 2009
In view of a recent post on the same subject I thought I would resurrect this thread.
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Message 8
Posted by Sir Gar Hywel dda (U13786187) on Thursday, 14th May 2009
The dates above coincide closely with my name sake Hywel Dda being the leader of Deheubarth and king of Wales for a short time, with the clear recognition that close ties with England were the way forward.
He travelled to Rome more than once and signed new city charters throughout England, Exeter being one,
Worcester possibly another in their early days. -
Message 9
Posted by Sir Gar Hywel dda (U13786187) on Thursday, 14th May 2009
The codification of Law was an important feature of those days with the Islamic Law and translation schools in Cordoba and Toledo, not as far a way as we might try to conjecture about them today.
One of the above Aethelbald/bert/wulf was the author of his own law book in Anglo-Saxon, which is on the internet in that tongue.
Alfred's Law school and Scriptorium in Winchester is another thing. -
Message 10
Posted by Sir Gar Hywel dda (U13786187) on Thursday, 14th May 2009
I should think the answer lies in the ascendancy of Latin as the language of Law at the time.
The Carolingian connection would seem to confirm this, although it seems a bit early to me, a little before the time you mention.
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