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Roman Amphorae is south america

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by anteos (U4228723) on Saturday, 27th May 2006

  Hi,
  
  I recently went to the greenwich maritime musuem, and in one section there was a narritive saying that Roman Amphorae had been discovered in south america.
  
  I have never heard of this before, is this correct? All I can think of is that the spanish carried them across?
  
  can anyone provide some information?
  
  thanks

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 27th May 2006

  How interesting. I must admit that I don't remember the Maritime Museum having such items, but my last visit was more than 20 years ago. Someone on this message board is bound to know definitely.
  
  Amphorae were made in vast numbers during the Graeco-Roman period. Your hypothesis of the Spanish carrying ancient remains across, as ships' ballast perhaps, has much to recommend it. There are other possibilities. The Romans traded up and down the west coast of Europe and Africa from the Canaries to Scotland. Having the occasional trading vessel blown off course into the Carribean doesn't sound too unreasonable.
  
  Regular trading visits from the Spanish Roman provinces to the New World seem just too hypothetical; until amphora fragments turn up in stratified deposits with other datable remains that is!
  
  TP

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• Message 3

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  Posted by cristobal (U2944478) on Wednesday, 31st May 2006

  The Incas had vessels that archaeologists call 'arybalos' because of their resemblance to the ancient greek vessels of the same name, but this is only a modern name for a native ceramic style. Possibly in another part of the continent there is another type of vessel that is shaped roughly like an amphora, though i have certainly never heard of, nor seen one.
  
  One thing is absolutely certain, there is no evidence whatsoever of any roman presence in South America at all, ever (or Vikings, Atlanteans, Egyptians, Mormons, Aliens or Solutreans for that matter).
  

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• Message 4

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  Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Wednesday, 31st May 2006

  I don't disagree with you but perhaps we ought to distinguish between those groups who actually existed (like Vikings, Egyptians and Romans) and those who didn't (like Aliens and Atlanteans). In view of the fact that nice young ladies in small boats can sale round the world on their own, who can say what the capacity of a boat load of maurauding Vikings might be? Getting back to Denmark is quite another matter, naturally!

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Richie (U1238064) ** on Wednesday, 31st May 2006

  i agree with the above comment
  
  there is no documentary facts supporting trade bewteen the RE and South America, certainly if the Spains were involved in trade then why did Columbus need to re-discover them. However it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a trading ship leaving the pillars of Heracles bound for the British Isles or the coastal regions of Gaul might get blown off course and the ship devoid of inhabitants land in south america. This is not something that is likely but it is a possibility.

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by DocMike15 (U3167117) on Thursday, 1st June 2006

  From Wikipedia -
  Amphorae in Guanabara Bay. In 1982, Brazilian newspapers reported that fragments of amphorae had been recovered by professional treasure hunter Robert Frank Marx, from the bottom of Guanabara Bay, offshore from the present city of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Elizabeth Lyding Mill of the University of Massachusetts has reportedly identified the finds as being Roman, manufactured at Kouass (Dehar Jedid) inf Morocco, and dated them to 3rd century. A bottom survey by Harold E. Edgerton of MIT located what seemed to be remains of two disintegrating ships. These claims however collapsed when AmΓ©rico (Amerigo) Santarelli, an Italian professional diver living in Rio de Janeiro, revealed in a book that he had 18 such amphors made by a local potter, and had placed 16 of them himself at various places in the bay. He said that his intent was to recover the encrusted amphors later, to decorate his house at Angra dos Reis. To prove his story, Santarelli recovered 8 of the amphors. The story pretty much died there. Robert Marx, incidentally, was prohibited to work in Brazil (as in several other countries) by alleged ethical misconduct in an unrelated find.
  
  Roman coins do turn up from time to time in all sorts of odd places, but this has more to do with people moving them there in modern times, than the Romans themselves. There are a number of coins which have been found in Glasgow, but they are almost certainly moden losses, perhaps by soldiers returning from the Middle East, rather than losses during the Roman period. (These coins were not issued in Britain)

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• Message 7

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  Posted by Xenos5 (U1814603) on Thursday, 1st June 2006

  TwinProbe
  
  I live up the road from the Maritime Museum. I'm pretty confident they have no such item, and a visit to their website turns up only one amphora, dated 1915.
  
  However, the original poster said (s)he had read a narrative at the museum describing such finds, rather than actually seeing an object. I promise to have a good look next time I'm down, and I'll report back !
  
  X

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• Message 8

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  Posted by anteos (U4228723) on Friday, 2nd June 2006

  Hi,
  
  It wasn't a piece of archaeological evidence. It was a narrative on the wall which mentioned amphora being found as far as the new world.
  
  maybe they removed it?
  
  
  
  

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Xenos5 (U1814603) on Monday, 5th June 2006

  Hello Anteos
  
  The narrative is still there - I checked at the weekend; in fact it is one of the newest rooms. It very clearly implies that the finds were genuine and that furthermore they are evidence of there having been transatlantic trade in ancient times. I tried to find a curator to speak to, but none were available. I suggest someone should write to them, alerting them to the materilal in this thread about the veracity (lack thereof) of the find.
  
  Regards
  Xenos

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