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What news on Linear A?

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Wednesday, 10th May 2006

  Yesterday I had an intersting discussion among which one mentioned that he read in Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ about the deciphering of Linear A (accomplished only recently, only 1-2-3 months). And that the disc of Phaistos in Crete was the first proof of printing. When I asked and was it deciphering of the meaning or do we have hints of the type of language too? He said probably the second (naturally since it is not only symbolic alphabet but seems to have letters too thus deciphering would imply language hints).
  
  Now I made a quick search and did not find the article, has anyone heard something? I will continue searching though in case I missed it.

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  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Wednesday, 10th May 2006

  I continue my search and find only past attempts of which none has been well-established.
  
  Some 60% of efforts assumes a Greek language (a dialect resembling an earlier form of Mycenean Greek - in the same sense that Mycenean Greek differs from later Greek dialects). 90% of them are serious efforts, but then we could discart of 10% that come from 'hot Greeks' or 'hot fans of Greece' who would like to have it 'all Greek in the area'.
  
  Some 20% assumes that it is of Egyptian related language since hieroglyphics show an Egyptian influence (it is known that Minoans like later Myceneans loved paying visits in Egypt). 90% of them are serious but we could discart 10% of them half being clearly 'anti-greek' (trying to take as much as possible from greeks - previously had tried to take Linear B but only failed) and some recently are those 'Black Athena' people whom I described in another discussion here.
  
  Some 20% assumes that this language has been of Luwian connection (luwian is an indoeuropean language spoken by people of deeper Minor Asia). 90% of them are serious efforts but we may disart a 10% for similar reasons as above (but no 'black athena' circus here).
  
  1 research I saw actually suggested that it was an ancient slavonic language but this has to be discarded as yet another slavic fabrication - slavic historians are known to have fabricated tons of crap theories just to establish an older slavic presence in the area and cut off their obvious roots from west-east Urals.
  
  
  I am no certified historian and no proved cryptogragrapher-deciphering specialist, thus I cannot present any hypothesis. Theoretically the language could be anything even as mysterious as the language of Basque. It could be also that the disc was imported from another geographical point thus having little relation to Crete, or made in Crete but by visitors using their own language - the possibilities are endless.
  
  However if I was asked to make a rough assumption I would start from a vastly different point:
  
  Minoans are known to had heavily colonised Cyprus and Palestine and were described even in Bible as Philistines and as Cretans. However, strangely in the following centuries these Philistines and Cretans give their position to... Greeks which is amazing. How come? If we imagine that Minoans were non Greeks were Greek on a crusade against Minoans and after having taken Crete they chased them all over the place in the Mediterranean were Minoans had found refuge? This is highly impossible to have happened. The assumption that Cretans also were of Greek affinity is of course much more plausible as it would be only natural that Philistine Cretans would move along the same line with other Greek tribes thus latern on in centuries would be recognised by Semitic people as Greek (and a Greek was a Greek, there was no much place for confusion in that well known area of the world!).
  
  There is no solid proof in the above point but it is yet another strong point supporting the first of the three main theories.
  
  That is why the news about the deciphering of the Linear A made me make this search I am only so curious to see what scientists have found so far or even concluded.

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  Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Wednesday, 10th May 2006

  I wonder how they deciphered it, considering it's resisted deciphering so far. Isn't it related to Linear Cyprus (or whatever!)?
  
  Eliza

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Wednesday, 10th May 2006

  Dunno Nick, unless they said they had translated the whole of Linear A, Kuru means total and is thought to be derived from the Semitic for whole apparently, then I suspect it is more supposition as the jury is still out on the rest of the texts. There has been a tentative identification of certain votive statements on Linear A documents that echo Phoenician methods of adressing a particular Goddess, specifically as our lady over the seas which suggests some form of close interaction with the Levant but that is hardly surprising and doesn't prove who told whom about the Goddess. Given that the application of the sylables used for Linear B does not generate anything approaching Greek when applied to Linear A, despite the close relationship between the two scripts it suggests Greek speakers were fairly late arrivals to the island.

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Thursday, 11th May 2006

  Find it hard to follow the reasoning behind the Phaestos disc being anything to do with printing.
  
  When I was in Crete the prevailing theory was that it was used, probably in some ritual associated with the agricultural cycle, as a device for indicating that votive offerings of produce had been donated from each of the Minoan 'prefectures' on the island. It made a deal of sense. How did we get from that theory to printing?

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  Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Thursday, 11th May 2006

  all languges can be read looking for a common word generaly unlocks it,it will be interesting looking at what ever it unravels.

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  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Thursday, 11th May 2006

  From your answers I got the idea: there is no established (the person I spoke usually is quite informed, perhaps he was mistaken (anyway he had not read the whole article) or informed only on such half-theories making theoretic suggestions or something.
  
  - Normann you are right to wonder on 'printing'... well do not get it 100% as 'printing' in the sense of moveable type. It is more in the sense that anyway any stamp is printing and stamps existed since the dawn of drawing (even before letters). Minoans are generally believed to had used extensively stamps in their administration system.
  
  
  Now as the theories continue to suggest things some might think that it may remain an unsolvable mystery just like those little or big secrets (or no secrets! it can be all in our heads!) that we say sometimes the Sphinx in Egypt hides from us. In my opinion it will be only a matter of time. They will find other writtings of Linear A or close, the place must be full of them, it is just that this disappointing country (some internal politics here!) does not pay a lot for archaiological research (even without considering the fact that the place is full, again money are minimal to zero) - I think had there been a wholistic approach on the island (and on other islands) they would have found more things (even after a thorough research we only find the 0,1% how can we find things when no research goes on?).
  
  PS: Elisabeth for your information Linear A is the forerunner of Linear B and C (Cypriot) but then being the oldest of the three it is more close to pictograms (C has around 40 letters B has around 80, A is uknown but could possibly have at least double) though not fully pictogrammatic. There is visible connection with Egyptian alphabets (which is more observable than with its descendants - and here I make the observation (but of course no established point) that a primary linearisation of alphabets started in that area; in the middle east they used cuneiform styles from Iran to the mediterranean coast (Ugarit)).
  
  Apart from the alphabet Minoans are gathering the interest of everybody and not only Greeks (greek lovers) who naturally want them Greek (which would be amazing and would change yet another time our idea about this nation and its path trhough history, or Egyptian lovers who want them to be Egyptian (thus establishing an early strong Egyptian physical presence in Europe - which would be the same amazing since today we established only strong Egyptian presence in nearby Asian lands). Even apart from the language, Minoans had been a very charming civilisation that despite the understandable similarities (since that was a country of sailors that went all over the places), it deviated considerably taking for granted that their way of living at many points (religious celebrations, athletics, women's spectacular fashion, piscines with view in the Aegean! less militarism than Myceneans - though the latter is always a hypothesis etc.) seems to had been superior even from that of contemporary Egyptians and Middle Easterners who boasted more powerful kingdoms.

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Thursday, 11th May 2006

  Woudn't the evidence of Middle Eastern Cylinder seals in ealry Minoan strata suggest a much more obvious object that could be used as a stamp than the Phaistos Disc? Perhaps the cast it was made from would be a better example of reproducing script than suggesting they used the finished article..

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  Absolutely Lolbeeble! Of course I just reproduced what that article read by another and narrated to me thus I did not exactly supported that idea and of course I would never support that Minoans or them or them invented the stamp since I think it is a large group of techniques that certainly have been invented, improved and re-invented 100 times throughout human history since Palaiolithic times (here I make my guess but I am really confident!).

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