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Fall of the Greeks

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  Posted by CorePersephone (U3724174) on Saturday, 8th April 2006

  I recently read in my new book that the Greeks may have fallen because of the olive. They say that the olive trees destroyed the soil because of their roots and made it impossible to plant any plant but the olive tree. This severely cut down on the economy and thus they say this may have been a fall on the Greeks. Does anyone have any backup information on this?

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  Posted by snazzyangel (U3243081) on Sunday, 9th April 2006

  It is said that Athena and Posiedon were fighting to be the patron deity of Athens. Athena planted an olive tree and made it grow while Poseidon gave them salt water as he was the god of the sea.
  
  You can go to bbc's homepage under Ancient History it will be under: Religion: Greek Gods.

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Sunday, 9th April 2006

  Dunno, olives grows best on thin rocky soils that are abundant in Southern Greece so its not like Athens could have sustained a larger population with more grain cultivation due the paucity of the soil in Attica. Besides which the Greeks looked to the fertile Nile valley and the Black sea for their grain needs. In fact it seems to have oscilated between these two areas with concentration on Egyptian imports until the Persians conquered the area and forced them to rely on Northern varieties of wheat. The establishment of a Greek Kingdom in the Nile delta under Ptolemy Sotor saw the Nile reestablish the grain trade routes with the Greek and later the Roman Empire whereas the Islamic expansions saw them revert to the Black sea grain routes after they were expelled form Egypt.

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  Posted by snazzyangel (U3243081) on Sunday, 9th April 2006

  Seriously, After the fall of Mesolongi the army was disorganised, the government had no money. With all that happening it's no surprise the empire fell.
  

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  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Monday, 10th April 2006

  Core Persephone, to what period of history are you referring? Cos Greeks had many periods of "regression" and "development" but then no certain "fall" as a nation - they just nicely continue to exist up to today though concentrated since mid-20th century (for the first time after 4000 years) back to their homelands.
  
  There is no specific date for the 'fall of Greeks' as Greeks were not one nation-state to fall, nor an empire to be dissolved but a nation that was living all around the Mediterranean and the Black sea usually concentrated in the coast. The fact that most of them lived at coastal places was the result of the fact that a large number of them lived out of sea-commerce rather than agriculture.
  
  Then even if your theory is correct there is another problem: according to pre-historic finds it seems that inhabitants of the area that was later to be described as Greece were cultivating olive trees and the grape-plants well before 5000 B.C. Hence, according to your book, they should have not even be able to develop any economy at all under the circumstances at any period of history! Quite the opposite, the fact that those lands of the southern peninsula were highly unsuited for agricultural use was a primary reason for forcing Greeks to take it to the sea-commerce thus developing further their economies. Greeks sold olive-oil and wine for wheat but then they would sell pretty much anything else (just like their competitors Phoenicians) thus even if olive-oil and wine production were severely damaged somehow they would find out something else to trade.

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  Posted by Tydehotep (U3701136) on Monday, 10th April 2006

  The main "fall of the greeks" came during and after the persian invasion. During their invasion the persians signed a peace treaty with the spartans and Athenians but broke it up after three years due to their constant warring between each other, their time wasting (mainly due to their enormous sex lives) and unloyal actions. The Greeks were then employed as mercenaries on both egyptian (ptolemy) and Persian sides and in turn their own borders and economy were weakened. The reason why the greeks have never risen again in power and have stayed at least twenty five years behind the western world is becasue they still have the same personality traits as in ancient times. Having lived in Greece for five years and reading the books on Greek Mythology I can see identical representations.
  The olive tree theory has been dismissed throughout the Athenian, Halkadiki and northern state due to the large amount of growth of other plants.

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