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Ancient Greek and Roman Humour

• Message 1.Μύ

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Wednesday, 15th March 2006

  Hi all,
  
  Does anbody know of any humour or jokes from the ancient greeks and romans? The only one that comes straight to mind is from Plutarch's life of Fabius Maximus which I've added below.
  
  At Cannae a carthaginian officer caled Gisco remarked to Hannibal that the size of the Roman army they were facing was amazing. Hannibal replied to Gisco that there was something else even more amazing that he hadn't noticed - that in the army opposite there wasn't a single man called Gisco.
  
  OK, I admit that it isn't quite as sophisticated as "A Parthian, a Gaul and a Roman walk into a bar..." and Plutarch wouldn't last 5 minutes as a stand up comic, but it still shows that they had a sense of humour.
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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  This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Wednesday, 15th March 2006

  Much of what was written then as humour we take very seriously and regard as profundity. If they could see the reverence we pay to what were intended often as 'light' and 'amusing' anecdotal writings they'd be the ones rolling round the floor laughing at us and our lack of humour!
  
  But they just didn't do punchline gags. Sorry.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Thursday, 16th March 2006

  Much of what was written then as humour we take very seriously and regard as profundity. If they could see the reverence we pay to what were intended often as 'light' and 'amusing' anecdotal writings they'd be the ones rolling round the floor laughing at us and our lack of humour!
  
  But they just didn't do punchline gags. Sorry.Μύ
  
  There's also a lot that is unintentionally humorous which I love. Herodutus and his giant ants, Livy and cows climbing stairs and jumping out of windows.
  
  Oh and almost forgot - Ovid in his erotic poems, but I'm sure in his case he had his tongue very firmly embedded in his - or more likely a female friend's - cheek. Far better than any modern self-help guide for a budding Romeo...
  
  It does seem a shame that we treat them so seriously. I avoided them for years as I had the image that they were too stuffy, profound and would be difficult to read. In reality they are incredibly entertaining to read - especially Ovid, Tacitus, Plutarch and Livy (although Livy's habit of informing you who the consuls, tribunes etc. were for a certain year can seriously break the flow of a rip-roaring story.)
  
  Cheers,
  
  RF
  
  p.s. I managed to see Marduk's message about the Roman Graffiti before it got removed - now that's what I call funny...

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  Posted by DL (U1683040) on Thursday, 16th March 2006

  Sorry,
  
  I can't help thinking of "Life of Brian", and the "Comedy centurions"- Naughtius Maximus, and Biggus Dickus....
  
  
  

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• Message 6

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Thursday, 16th March 2006

  Sorry,
  
  I can't help thinking of "Life of Brian", and the "Comedy centurions"- Naughtius Maximus, and Biggus Dickus....
  
  
  Μύ
  
  And who could forget Biggus' wife - Incontentia Buttocks?
  
  

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• Message 7

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  Posted by DL (U1683040) on Thursday, 16th March 2006

  How could I forget old Incontinentia!!!
  
  
  Sorry folks, didn't mean to lower the tone.
  
  ("Welease Wodewick!!! He's a Wotter!!")
  

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• Message 8

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  Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Thursday, 16th March 2006

  "There's also a lot that is unintentionally humorous which I love. Herodutus and his giant ants, Livy and cows climbing stairs and jumping out of windows."
  rainbowffolly
  
  
  Evidence for Herodotus' gold digging giant ants was in fact discovered in the Himalayas some time ago:
  
  
  
  
  
  

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• Message 9

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  Posted by dwrmatt (U1984005) on Thursday, 16th March 2006

  What about the stuff in the comedians? I can't quote off the top of my head, but there's bound to be bags of stuff in Aristophanes, and maybe even the Roman gubbins.
  
  Remember as well the ancients' fondness for puns, especially with names, e.g. Odysseus' "No-one" (Cyclops' cry "No-one's hurting me"). A more recondite example, to prove how widespread the practice was, is the play on Eurybates' arrival in Seneca's "Agamemnon" - "look how he comes with broad step!"
  
  
  

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• Message 10

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  Evidence for Herodotus' gold digging giant ants was in fact discovered in the Himalayas some time ago:
  
  
  Μύ
  
  I feel so ashamed for ever doubting him in the first place.
  
  Livius.org looks good - are there any other sites that you - or anyone else - can recommend?
  
  RF

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• Message 11

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  What about the stuff in the comedians? I can't quote off the top of my head, but there's bound to be bags of stuff in Aristophanes, and maybe even the Roman gubbins.
  
  Remember as well the ancients' fondness for puns, especially with names, e.g. Odysseus' "No-one" (Cyclops' cry "No-one's hurting me"). A more recondite example, to prove how widespread the practice was, is the play on Eurybates' arrival in Seneca's "Agamemnon" - "look how he comes with broad step!"
  Μύ
  
  I thought Aristophanes' Lysistrata was seriously funny, and the premise itself was incredible. Unfortunately, I haven't read many other plays (same with epic poems i'm sad to say) as prose just seems a lot easier to digest.
  
  Will check up the puns in names tonight. I'd completely forgotten that they had meanings and just took them for granted!
  
  Seneca's Apocolocyntosis is hilarious. In my ideal world Claudius's last words would have been those quoted by Seneca...
  
  

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• Message 12

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  Posted by dwrmatt (U1984005) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  My favourite last words are Vespasian's: "Oh dear, I'm turning into a god."

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• Message 13

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  My favourite last words are Vespasian's: "Oh dear, I'm turning into a god."Μύ
  
  
  
  That is just too good! You'll have to let me know the source of it. As far as I'm concerned it's on par with Spike Milligan's "I told you I was ill" epitaph...
  
  RF

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• Message 14

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  Posted by dwrmatt (U1984005) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  I'm pretty sure it's in Suetonius' Life of Vesp., presumably near the end...

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• Message 15

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  Yup, Suetonius' Vespasian.

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  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Friday, 17th March 2006

  There is, I believe, a reasonable amount of humourous plays from ancient Rome and Greece which has survived. I recall reading extracts from some (by Plautus?) which were clearly the inspiration for Frankie Howerd's Up Pompeii, even with very similar jokes in them. The few extracts I have read were of that order of humour, a bit like a 1960's farce with Brian Rix. These would probably have been the most popular with the masses, but it is reasonable to assume that there was also some more up-market humour.

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• Message 17

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  Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Saturday, 18th March 2006

  My favourite last words are Vespasian's: "Oh dear, I'm turning into a god."Μύ
  
  Then of course there is Nero "What an artist dies with me!"
  
  but I guess in that case the humour was unintentional

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• Message 18

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  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Sunday, 19th March 2006

  Greek humour is instantaneous and tends to come as a response to others' sayings in a discussion (you will not find easily the likes of "stand-up comedy" or such things something true at any era). One typical example is the response of the spartan soldier to king Alexander the first of the Macedonians. The kingdom of Macedonia like many other weaker Greek states had to surrender to the overwhelming Persian army, thus Alexander ended being an ambassador of Xerxis to the Greek alliance. Alexander, a proud greek himself, really cared for all Greeks' future thus once sent in Leonidas' camp in Thermopylae he expressed his sincere feelings and his concern for the Greeks' future and the grave danger of being totally anihillated by Persians if continuing to resist. He kept on telling them how big and powerful was the Persian army so one soldier came in front and asked him:
  
  Spartan soldier: "so honestly, are they so many?"
  Alexander: "they are indeed so many; their archers can cover the sunlight with their arrows!"
  Spartan soldier: "that is really cool, we prefer anytime to fight under a shadow!".

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• Message 19

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  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Monday, 20th March 2006

  Nikolaos, I feel you are doing a disservice to Greek comedic playwrights such as Aristophanes, Menander and Philemon. And I am sure there are others whose names I can;t recall just now.
  
  Menander's plays were highly regarded by the Romans and I am fairly sure that Plautus "borrowed" some of the plots, only for Frankie Howerd to do the same nearly two thousand years later. It is unfortunate that there is not a lot of surviving comedy, but I am sure the Greeks liked a good laugh as well as anyone. I suspect the fact that comedy Is often looked upon as "low brow" means that written versions of plays may not have been highly prized and therefore have not survived.
  
  
  
  
  
  

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• Message 20

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Monday, 20th March 2006

  Nick, you'll find Laconic wit among groups who believe they are all equal in status.

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• Message 21

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  Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Thursday, 23rd March 2006

  It is unfortunate that there is not a lot of surviving comedy, but I am sure the Greeks liked a good laugh as well as anyone. I suspect the fact that comedy Is often looked upon as "low brow" means that written versions of plays may not have been highly prized and therefore have not survived.
  Μύ
  
  Beside the comedies, the Greeks also had something called a satyr play which was a kind of bawdy light relief performed at the end of the tragedy. None have survived, except for a fragment that was peformed at the (British) National Theatre some years ago under the title "The Trackers of Oxyrhyncus"(sp?) in a translation by Tony Harrison.

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• Message 22

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  Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Thursday, 23rd March 2006

  Hadrian was known for his ready wit. The only story I can remember is as follows. A man in some financial difficulty, who happened to have gray hair, came to Hadrian to ask for some help, which the Emperor generously gave. Seeing he was on to a good thing, the man decided to disguise himself as somebody else and ask for another. He coloured his hair dark and had an audience with Hadrian, who, seeing through the disguise immediately, said that he had already assissted his father!
  
  Another posting mentioning Vespasian reminds me of an incident related by Suetonious. Vespasian is well known to have been ugly, or as Suetonious says, a 'strained' look on his face. Well, crowds were gathered in some stadium, with Vespasian present, and everybody was entertained by a comedian who was very good at taking the p*** out of people. When Vespasian said 'Hey, why don't you make a joke about me?', the comedian replied that he would do when Vespasian had finished relieving himself.
  
  Caligula liked a good laugh, but, being the scumbag thug that he was, there had to be some kind of cruelty involved. At some dinner Caligula laughed out loud. When a senator politeley enquired what was so amusing, the emperor said something like 'I'll tell you what's funny, the fact that I can have my soldiers cut your throats whenever I like'.
  

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• Message 23

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  Posted by legoista (U3457977) on Thursday, 23rd March 2006

  A lot of the newer translations of Roman grafitti have shown the soldiers, and even the officers, had very crude senses of humor, nothing like the refined stuff of the classical comedies, and Ovids metamorphosis and art of love both show that even the upper classes liked very broad sexual and scatalogical humor! Much of which would get this message removed if I quoted it!

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• Message 24

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  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Friday, 24th March 2006

  I'm sure Suetonius mentions another one about Vespasian who was also renowned for trying to build up his treasury by taxing everything in sight. Apparently when some senators approached him askin gpermission to raise a statue of him, he held out his hand, rubbed thumb and fingers together and said, "the pedestal is waiting".

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• Message 25

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  Posted by dwrmatt (U1984005) on Friday, 24th March 2006

  Not forgetting the broad sexual/scatological humour of Archilochus and Hipponax - there's a pseudo-Archilochean piece in the Loeb collection that manages to be astonishly obscene,prurient and amazingly funny at the same. A personal fave

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• Message 26

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Friday, 24th March 2006

  I'm sure Suetonius mentions another one about Vespasian who was also renowned for trying to build up his treasury by taxing everything in sight. Apparently when some senators approached him askin gpermission to raise a statue of him, he held out his hand, rubbed thumb and fingers together and said, "the pedestal is waiting".Μύ
  
  And on a similar theme, when his son (the future Emperor Titus) complained about Vespasian taxing urine (which was used by the Romans as a bleaching agent), Vespasian shoved a coin under Titus' nose and asked if the smell offended him. Titus, of course, said no - to which Vespasian replied "But it comes from urine!" Another one from Suetonius. Of course the taxes were reasonable considering that Vespasian came to the throne after Nero's profligacy and a civil war.
  
  Incidentally, the whole opening scene in Luke's Gospel, Zechariah's encounter with the Archangel Gabriel, is supposed to be comedic, but of course being the Bible the translations have tended to be done 'straight'.
  
  The trouble is ancient humour, like a lot of foreign humour, doesn't tranlate well between different cultures. I find that Plautus' comedies are generally only mildly amusing, whilst they had the Romans parlysed with laughter.

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