Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Ancient and ArchaeologyΒ  permalink

Trousers in the Dark Ages

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Mister Dreadful (U651852) on Monday, 6th March 2006

  Odd thread title I know, but this could help settle an arguement.
  
  I'm thinking of getting into re-enactment, specifically Viking, and was discussing costume with a couple of friends who also want to do it. When we got onto the subject of trousers one of my friends piped up and said "oh yes, they were just tubes that tied to a belt"... now I'm pretty sure that trousers in Northern/Western Europe at the time were just that - trousers, but both the people I was talking to were adamant that they didn't wear trousers at all and re-enactors only wear trousers for practicality.
  
  I'm sure that the 'tubes which tie to a belt' are actually Medieval hosen, which I know for a fact re-enactors of the appropiate period do wear.
  
  Which is correct?

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message1

• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Monday, 6th March 2006

  Yes, the 'tubes tied to a belt' does sound like medieval hose, but proper trousers have existed since Celtic times (at least) and were certainly widespread even amongst the Romans by the 5th century AD.
  
  Iconographic evidence, and a few examples of remains, however, confirm that the Vikings DID indeed wear trousers (see, for example, and
  
  It is also worth bearing in mind that these days most re-enactment groups are meticulous about authenticity and are not likely to wear inauthentic costumes merely for convenience.
  
  Hope this helps,
  
  A-N

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message2

• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Mister Dreadful (U651852) on Tuesday, 7th March 2006

  Ta!
  
  It is also worth bearing in mind that these days most re-enactment groups are meticulous about authenticity and are not likely to wear inauthentic costumes merely for convenience.Β 
  
  I thought that was the case... but I wanted to be sure as the person who mentioned the 'tubes' did history at uni whereas I didn't.

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message3

• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Tuesday, 7th March 2006

  Ta
  
  I thought that was the case... but I wanted to be sure as the person who mentioned the 'tubes' did history at uni whereas I didn't.Β 
  
  No problem.
  
  I did a history degree at uni too, in case your friend asks!

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message4

• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Tuesday, 7th March 2006

  Indeed Anglo-Norman is precise. The majority of serious re-enactment groups take a lopt of pain trying to be as precise as possible and money for them is not an issue let alone comfort! I remember an english Roman re-enactment group (the first of its kind, founded in the 70s) had a lot of trouble since still in the 70s fewer things were known on the Roman army and thus they repeatedly had to retire old 'wrong' equipment to replace it with new, a process which is very expensive considering the fact that a full legionaire's armour costs around 3000 pounds!!!
  
  Trousers as we know them existed well since the Celtic times and that should go on much earlier as pretty much most tribes habitating in colder climates preferred them for better protection of legs (of course one may claim that extensive horse riding influenced, it is true but only partially since natives in America also knew trousers but had no horses). Southern tribes would much rather prefer wrapped cloths (that are more correct for hot climates). Famous for their trousers were the Persians who wore colourful tights that today would be the cloths of women and so Greeks thought of them. Normally Greeks are thought to be almost 'politically' against trousers (barbarian style) but then we have found coins from Greek cities in the north Black Sea (modern Ukraine and Georgia) that depict ancient Greek infantry and cavalry men dressed in exactly the same fashion of hoplite (same helmet, shield, armour etc.) but then instead of the famous 'sexy' mini-skirt they wore Skythian-style trousers (but not tights) obviously because of the cold of those regions - comfort and health was a priority.
  
  With the influx of norther people in the european south and primarily as Mediterranean climate got colder and colder from the 4th century onwards, trousers became widespread in the same sense that jeans got widespread from 19th century onwards: as a practical cloth for soldiers and workers. However from the 13th century onwards trousers enterred the category of high class garments though in many variations (tight or loose etc.).

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message5

• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Mister Dreadful (U651852) on Tuesday, 7th March 2006

  a full legionaire's armour costs around 3000 pounds!!!Β 
  
  Crikey! I did look at Roman re-enactment a couple of years ago but the costs put me off... that's part of the reason why I'm thinking of doing Dark Ages, I can make a fair amount of the kit myself for a fraction of the price charged by professional traders.

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message6

• Message 7

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Tuesday, 7th March 2006

  detail (jeans in 19th century were used by workers, not soldiers as far as I know, I mean trousers for much of the medieval times in most places were a strong piece of cloth suitable for labour jobs and military). However if a man wanted to impress his love then he would wear some stylish wrapped chiton-style cloth and not a trousers and a blouse above.

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message7

• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Tuesday, 7th March 2006

  There is also an ancient Greek group but its on the beggining. The prices are similar to the Roman ones - not to mention higher (for reasons of quanity only - Roman re-enactment is more common). The hoplite costed the same even if picking a pressed linen-armour type ('linothorax') not to mention that the shield is more complicated than the Roman (layers of wood or leather and metal) and the helmet needs to be balanced (to be wore in the 2nd position Pericle's style). I thought that I could perhaps enlist as a Peltast (helmet, moon-shaped shield, leg protection, spear and sword but then still the price is expensive). Better enlist as an archer, you buy only the cloths and a bow... hahahah but that is not cool!

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message8

• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by luke_tharmslow (U1964675) on Thursday, 9th March 2006

  Mmm I dont know about the origins of trousers but how on earth did they see to do them up in the Dark Ages?

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message9

• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by Mister Dreadful (U651852) on Thursday, 9th March 2006

  Mmm I dont know about the origins of trousers but how on earth did they see to do them up in the Dark Ages?Β 
  
  *Drum fill*

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message10

• Message 11

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 10th March 2006

  Well, a viking could always strike a match and light up a hamlet... Mmm I dont know about the origins of trousers but how on earth did they see to do them up in the Dark Ages?Β 

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message11

• Message 12

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Hasse (U1882612) on Friday, 10th March 2006

  The Ped
  
  The Vikings did use both real trousers,and hose legs.
  
  Finery was always real trouser preferably of the wide east/Arabic sort in clear colours,hunting skin trousers preferably elk skin.
  
  The serf and the daily farmer read even the higher upps since Viking was a mostly a part time job,did use hoselegs of homespun.
  
  We even know that some used some form of kilt.
  The Norwegian king Magnus barfot(barefeet)got his nick since he prefered the kilt.
  
  Hasse
  
  

  Link to this forum: Trousers in the Dark Ages

  Report message12

Back to top