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Nazca lines

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by mvarennes (U2373372) on Wednesday, 11th January 2006

  What are the current most probable theory concerning these "primitive" 30 miles wide ground drawings.
  Are they really ancient ?
  Are the Aztecs theory speaking about Gods in the sky ? (Obviously they are made to be seen from above...)
  Please comment.

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Elistan (U1872011) on Wednesday, 11th January 2006

  mv
  
  Don't where current theories lie, but aren't they in Inca territory rather than Aztec?
  
  I've a feeling they are supposed to pre-date the Incas, but how much, etc. etc. I can't remember.
  
  Haven't heard any wacky theories about these yet, so I am game.

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• Message 3

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  Posted by Elistan (U1872011) on Wednesday, 11th January 2006

  mv
  
  Don't where current theories lie, but aren't they in Inca territory rather than Aztec?
  
  I've a feeling they are supposed to pre-date the Incas, but how much, etc. etc. I can't remember.
  
  Haven't heard any wacky theories about these yet, so I am game.
  
  Just had a bit of google.
  
  
  Van Daniken, in his authorative masterpiece Chariot of the Gods, 1970, reckons it was...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Drum roll please...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Space Aliens in UFOs relaying instructions down below. According to him the Nazca lines and figures could have been "built according to instructions from aircraft." He adds:"Classical archeology does not admit that the pre-Inca peoples could have had a perfect surveying technique. And the theory that aircraft could have existed in antiquity is sheer humbug to them."
  Quote taken from:
  
  Since another bloke, Joe Nickell, managed to recreate them without the necessity of aerial supervision using materials only available at the time of construction (reckoned to be between 200BCE and 500CE).
  
  The locals, apparent, have an oral tradition of their usage as religious sites for communicating with the gods of the Andes.
  
  Just a quick google.
  
  Elistan

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• Message 4

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Wednesday, 11th January 2006

  The Nazca lines appear to have been used as ritual procession paths by the Incas. The local population would follow the lines as part of a ritual to ensure the continued benevolence of the Gods. There appear to be two sorts of line, complex symbolic patterns and long converging lines towards the direction of rainfall on the Andes. The complex symbols are derived from Andean weaving patterns apparently. As such it was just a case of increasing the size the design and plotting it across the desert. These patterns seem to represent some kind of tribal identity marker and following the procession way was as much to do with affirming group identity. The latter appear to have become more common in response to drought suggesting that following the converging lines was more to placate water deities.

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Wednesday, 11th January 2006

  I remember being stumped by this one. I mean, why make these damn things if they can't be seen by anyone? Then I went 'DURH' - they were built by people who assumed the gods could see them. That was the important bit for them.
  
  By the way, are there any 'nice' South/Meso American civilisations? Or were they all into human sacrifice like the Aztecs, Incas and that other lot in the Peruvian desert (Cuzco?)?
  
  Eliza.

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  Posted by cristobal (U2944478) on Thursday, 12th January 2006

  The Nasca lines represent an artistic and ritual cultural tradition that spanned milennia. The first markings are now thought to have been made by the Paracas culture between 700-200 BC. The geoglyphs continued to be engraved into the desert surface up until the end of the seventh century AD, when the Paracas' successors, the Nasca were absorbed into the emergent Huari 'empire'. As the Inca empire did not reach this area of Peru until the fourteenth century, it is unlikely that the Incas ever knew of the geoglyphs' existance.
  
  The dating of the lines has been secured through the associated presence of fine ceramic vessels, the designs on which are known to be temporally indicative.
  
  Many of the designs of the geoglyphs can also be found on Nasca woven textiles and decorated pottery and this has been used as evidence to place the geoglyphs within this artistic tradition. However, none of the geoglyphs correspond with known Nasca deities, which tend to be largely anthropomorphic in nature. Thus, whatever the lines depict, it is not the gods themselves.
  
  The straight lines and 'trapezoids' that von Danniken saw as 'runways' for his spaceships point not only to water sources in the mountains, but also locations where an underground section of the Nasca river flows close to that section of the desert.
  
  While suggestions that the lines functioned as astronomical calendars or ethnic markers cannot be discounted, they seem now to be favoured less than the artistic tradition theory. It seems that the animals did hold some kind of ritual significance that informed their depiction on precious items such as woven textiles, fine ceramics, and , possibly most precious of all, the earth itself. What activities took place in conjunction with the figures may never be known.
  
  Also, the Nasca were the architypal 'nice' culture, well versed in music and fine arts and with not a trace of human sacrifice (although there was a worrying penchant for making bags out of the heads of vanquished battlefield opponents).

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Thursday, 12th January 2006

  Right, not seen the Andean child mummies then. Nevermind the serene look on their faces, look at the pathology and you'll see these are ritual murders.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by mvarennes (U2373372) on Friday, 13th January 2006

  Thanks Cristobal.

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Friday, 13th January 2006

  Glad the Nasca were nice. It's so deprssessing, all the human sacrifice pre-columbian religions/cultures.
  
  I rememvber seeing a fragment of a TV programme made by some guy who seemed to be drooling over the thought of the kids being killed. He had child actors standing around looking soulful with haunting music. He seemed an evil freak to me.
  
  Eliza.

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• Message 10

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  Posted by cristobal (U2944478) on Monday, 16th January 2006

  lolbeeble, i have seen the andean child mummies and entirely concur that they were the 'victims' of ritual sacrifice. However, the child mummies in question were from the Inca culture (probably part of a tradition carried on from the Colla people who were conquered by the Incas in the 1430s) and i was referring only to the Nasca when i said that human sacrifice did not occur.
  
  Other peruvian cultures including the Moche and Chimu are also known to have practiced ritual sacrifice, though not with children, only captured prisoners of war.

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  Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Monday, 16th January 2006

  Gosh, surrounded by so many murderous civilisations, it's a wonder the Nazca survived. Maybe they didn't - maybe they all got ritually sacrified by the freaky lot.
  
  I just do findit depressing that ritual sacrifice was so popular, for so long, in so many parts of pre-coloumbian america.
  
  Eliza.

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• Message 12

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  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Monday, 16th January 2006

  Well I suppose there hasn't been anything we can quantively say was a live sacrafice from the Nazca valley, but handing over live offerings to the spirits is fairly common across many societies, what with all those garroted bog bodies around Northern Europe. As such it seems the Moche valley had some influence over the later settlement phases of Nazca culture, and bearing in mind warfare seems to have been a constant feature of Nazca iconography on pottery perhaps warrior sacrafice seeped along with it.

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• Message 13

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  Posted by cristobal (U2944478) on Tuesday, 17th January 2006

  True, although as there is no evidence of ritual sacrifice on even late Nasca pots, or in the pathology of the many Nasca human remains, i would find it safer to assume that sacrifice was not practiced here. Interestingly many important aspects of Moche culture, such as stirrup handled vessels, (over)dependence on the marine economy (for trade as well as food), and pyramidal temples did not make it to the Nasca valley during the supposed period of Moche influence (Nasca 7 onwards). In my opinion, this 'influence' was probably more to do with trade than any political or cultural link.

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