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Masada

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Wednesday, 23rd November 2005

  did the seige of Masada and the mass suicide actually happen or was it myth...i saw a documentary which said that it did...but i cant recall the particulars which where presented therein?
  
  cheers

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• Message 2

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  Posted by snowjokeatall (U2055291) on Wednesday, 23rd November 2005

  I saw this I think. Its was a real event. Apparantly the ramp the Romans built is still visible.
  
  Have a look at
  
  

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  Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Wednesday, 23rd November 2005

  Hi there. The siege of Masada did actually happen, during the Jewish revolt and was documented in Josephus' "The Jewish War". There are other references, but the whole episode was treated with a certain suspicion until a couple of American explorer/adventurers discovered what they believed to be Masada in the mid 19C. (Not too sure of dates here which is why I'm not making any bold and definite statements). Further investigation and a bit of digging began to turn up artefacts consistent with the people besieged within the walls and broadly consistent with the account of Josephus. The siege is an historical fact. What I'm not too sure about is the mass suicide part. I have been told in my distant schooldays that a dozen or so who had drawn the short straw, were instructed to kill all the remaining people in the settlement, and then kill themselves when the Romans breached the defences, which they inevitably would. Whether this is what actually happened in the event I'm not too sure, although somewhere, possibly even on the Internet there is sure to be an archaeological report which will make for interesting reading. I think Masada was so well placed defensively and gave the Romans such a problem, that they occupied the site for many years afterward to prevent a repeat. I'm going to see if I can find out a little more, and check back to see if anyone can throw more light on this. All the best.

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  Posted by Simon21 (U1338658) on Wednesday, 23rd November 2005

  Hi there. The siege of Masada did actually happen, during the Jewish revolt and was documented in Josephus' "The Jewish War". There are other references, but the whole episode was treated with a certain suspicion until a couple of American explorer/adventurers discovered what they believed to be Masada in the mid 19C. (Not too sure of dates here which is why I'm not making any bold and definite statements). Further investigation and a bit of digging began to turn up artefacts consistent with the people besieged within the walls and broadly consistent with the account of Josephus. The siege is an historical fact. What I'm not too sure about is the mass suicide part. I have been told in my distant schooldays that a dozen or so who had drawn the short straw, were instructed to kill all the remaining people in the settlement, and then kill themselves when the Romans breached the defences, which they inevitably would. Whether this is what actually happened in the event I'm not too sure, although somewhere, possibly even on the Internet there is sure to be an archaeological report which will make for interesting reading. I think Masada was so well placed defensively and gave the Romans such a problem, that they occupied the site for many years afterward to prevent a repeat. I'm going to see if I can find out a little more, and check back to see if anyone can throw more light on this. All the best. Β 
  
  
  There is no evidence for the mass suicide and Josephus, to put it mildly, is not a reliable source.
  
  Apart from the ramp there is little evidence of the seige inside the fort/palace.
  
  The farce all this became has been ably illustrated by Yigale Yadin's (the chief archaeologist) staging of a funeral for the remains of a "zealot".
  
  It is now thought these were the remains of a roman soldier buried on the site.
  
  It is important to remember that the zealots who led the jewish rebellion were disastorous for their country and people. In fact had not some rabbis refused to take part in the fighting and continued their rabinical schools the jewish religion would have come close to destruction, like the druidic before it.
  
  

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Wednesday, 23rd November 2005

  A similar mass suicide is recorded for the fortress-city of Jotapata (possibly modern-day Tell Jaffat), the garrison of which Josephus commanded during Vespasian's Siege of AD67. Josephus was supposed to have committed suicide along with the others, but by luck or the grace of God (he says) he was one of the last two, and the pair agreed to go their seperate ways. One version of his account, though contains what is probably rather closer to the truth - it says he carefully counted the number there to make sure he was one of the last!

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  Posted by ObeytheLaw (U2631618) on Monday, 5th December 2005

  hoi polloi,
  
  just to be accurate it is a bit of both.
  
  here is a link to the basics,
  
  
  
  We rely on Josephus as the only historian of Judea/Israel/Samaria of this period that has survived. He can be appreciated as an author on several sites including the standard critics since he is also a key historian for the christian historians and biblical historians in general.
  
  There is no reason to doubt the mass suicide even though it has resonance for the curent politics of the area. It is not vey Jewish but the occupants were violently oppossed to Roman rule as were most Jews at the time.
  
  Wiki I note denotes them as Sicarii when it is usually thought they were more organised Zealots and in families rather than the lone Sicarii assassins.

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