Ancient and ArchaeologyÌý permalink
Past Life Experience
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by sealglair (U2217098) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
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Message 2
Posted by Elistan (U1872011) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
Because we want tangible answers that we can share in, not flights of fancies that have all the metaphysical trappings of religious 'enlightenment'.
A thing I dig out of the mud has substance, a document drafted at the time contains the words of the people I am investigating. They can be verified, they can stand up to scrutiny. Hypnotic 'regression' is parlour trick for the gullible and purveyors of 'Johnaton Livingston Seagull' style pyscho-babble.
Enjoy your life
Elistan -
Message 3
Posted by kevmar (U1902470) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
You sound quite undecided Elistan.
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Message 4
Posted by Elistan (U1872011) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
No, I would have to say I'm pretty clear within myself as to where I would rank the the query in message 1. Personally I think this thread should be removed to some new age pseudo-religious site.
E -
Message 5
Posted by kevmar (U1902470) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
I think it's patronising to dismiss out of hand,things we know next to nothing about.
Take radio signals/tv pictures etc,if somone suggested these things a couple of centuaries ago,they would have been burned as a witch ,try to keep an open mind.
You will be telling us,there ain't life on other planets next,why?
because you say so.
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Message 6
Posted by Elistan (U1872011) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
I think it's patronising to dismiss out of hand,things we know next to nothing about.
Take radio signals/tv pictures etc,if somone suggested these things a couple of centuaries ago,they would have been burned as a witch ,try to keep an open mind.
You will be telling us,there ain't life on other planets next,why?
because you say so.Ìý
You get me wrong. I don't dismiss out of hand that which we do not know as something that we can not know in the future. I just do not trust a format of information retrieval that is not independently verifible. Lots of rednecks in the States swear blind that aliens visited them, and Louis Theroux claims to have met an individual who reckons he has beheaded ten already. You'll forgive if I don't accept the veracity of their stories until there is some independent evidence, more than just the verbal creation of a fertile imagination.
I use pseudo-religious quite intentionally, and maybe somday it will grew up into an actual religion. Religion is reliant on revelation their an individual, they are the conduit for 'God's' message to us. Likewise these deep trance past life regression hypnotees are the conduit for messages from the past to us today. Do you notice a similarity? The defence of the religious is that one must make a leap of faith. Well, jump away. To my (somewhat boringly rational) way of thinking I would like to join as many of the dots together as possible before I decide a horse is a horse, if you see what I mean. I don't need to take a leap of faith that mary-jo is the reincarnation of a twelfth century blacksmith. And, I conjecture, that to make that leap is to put oneself beyond realms of historical enquiry into the realms of metaphysical enquiry.
To paraphrase Monty Python "We better hope there is intelligent live out there, because there is b****r all down here!"
Elistan -
Message 7
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
I think it's patronising to dismiss out of hand,things we know next to nothing about.
Take radio signals/tv pictures etc,if somone suggested these things a couple of centuaries ago,they would have been burned as a witch ,try to keep an open mind.
You will be telling us,there ain't life on other planets next,why?
because you say so.Ìý
past life regression has been studied ad nauseam by impartial academics. It is not used because it is useless nonsense. Anything involving hypnosis is dodgy any way because the hypotist can impart his own spin on what is said. Hypnosis lays the subject open to suggestion. -
Message 8
Posted by kevmar (U1902470) on Thursday, 3rd November 2005
Should that read ,his or her own spin?
or are you feeling sleeeeepy?
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Message 9
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 3rd November 2005
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Message 10
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 3rd November 2005
Should that read ,his or her own spin?
or are you feeling sleeeeepy?Ìý
Can women be hypnotists ? -
Message 11
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Thursday, 3rd November 2005
Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý
i believes in reincarnation (belief in reincarnation is as old as the hills and as i understand it was a part of early-christianity also. but i am not a religious or even a very spiritual person) experientially i believe i have memories that i consider belong to previous lives...i've never need to resort to hynosis to regain them, but, i also consider myself a historian and i cant regard those memorys(or the alleged memories of others) as anything like a reliable or uncontaminated well of information for the reconstruction of past times...usings diarys from the 18th or 19th centuries is problematic enough for me. -
Message 12
Posted by yellowcat (U218155) on Thursday, 3rd November 2005
I have just followed Seaglair over from the science boards to see what he/she was posting here.
Hmmm... past life stuff, about as relevant to real history as his posts on astral projection are to science. -
Message 13
Posted by Elistan (U1872011) on Friday, 4th November 2005
Yellowdog,
Did you inflict this Hippy on us?
Did he seriously post about Astral projection on a science board?
Surely there is a time and place for this type of new-age hocus-pocus, it think its called college!
E -
Message 14
Posted by TimeladyShayde (U2426536) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
As an archaeologist and a pagan although I believe strongly in reincarnation because of my own experiences, I would never apply them to my academic work, for the simple reason that I cannot prove them to anyone other than myself. When writing an essay I go to the library, when seeking a deeper understanding of myself I meditate. My religious beliefs and my chosen career are entirely separate things and should remain so.
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Message 15
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
As an archaeologist and a pagan although I believe strongly in reincarnation because of my own experiences, I would never apply them to my academic work, for the simple reason that I cannot prove them to anyone other than myself. When writing an essay I go to the library, when seeking a deeper understanding of myself I meditate. My religious beliefs and my chosen career are entirely separate things and should remain so.Ìý
ditto, that's exactly my position also. -
Message 16
Posted by mvarennes (U2373372) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
find a bench of volonteers, make them tell their past life experience. They need to be quite a few... Then compare and see if any of their experiences are related. They must not know each other and come from completely different environnement.
I volunteer if you can send me back to my old life as Ramses 2... -
Message 17
Posted by FowPah (U1746998) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
More Americans believe in past life experiences and ufos than anyonbe else.I think that says a lot.
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Message 18
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
find a bench of volonteers, make them tell their past life experience. They need to be quite a few... Then compare and see if any of their experiences are related. They must not know each other and come from completely different environnement.
I volunteer if you can send me back to my old life as Ramses 2...Ìý
'make them tell their past life experience' how do we 'make them'? why would any of their experiences be related? -
Message 19
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
More Americans believe in past life experiences and ufos than anyonbe else.I think that says a lot.Ìý
it doesnt say very much atall. -
Message 20
Posted by FowPah (U1746998) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
More Americans believe in past life experiences and ufos than anyonbe else.I think that says a lot.Ìý
it doesnt say very much atall.Ìý
It says crackpot theories do best in crackpot countries. -
Message 21
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Tuesday, 8th November 2005
More Americans believe in past life experiences and ufos than anyonbe else.I think that says a lot.Ìý
it doesnt say very much atall.Ìý
It says crackpot theories do best in crackpot countries.Ìý
it merely says that you make very sweeping statements which span unrelated issues to dismiss the belief systems of millions of people from many differing religions and ethnicities on one hand and you question the sanity of a whole American nation on the other.
and the inference is also that you also think that a percentage of the folks posting on this thread, including myself are crackpots for previously stated beliefs in reincarnation, although, like the Pagan guy, those beliefs are seperate from our identities as historians. -
Message 22
Posted by FowPah (U1746998) on Wednesday, 9th November 2005
Re-incarnation what a silly idea.
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Message 23
Posted by TimeladyShayde (U2426536) on Wednesday, 9th November 2005
Are you deliberately looking for an argument by any chance Gulo gulo?
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Message 24
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Tuesday, 15th November 2005
Are you deliberately looking for an argument by any chance Gulo gulo?Ìý
the likes of Gulo Gulo need to learn to argue a point clearly and evenly first Timelady...and Gulo might also want to read the whole of a thread before he adds his two-penith.
cheers -
Message 25
Posted by FowPah (U1746998) on Tuesday, 15th November 2005
No i don't,it's made up rubbish with zero proof.
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Message 26
Posted by TimeladyShayde (U2426536) on Tuesday, 15th November 2005
I don't need to prove my religious beliefs to anyone, they are, after all, a matter of personal faith. I'm also not expecting everyone to agree with me, but I do at least expect people to respect my beliefs whether they agree with them or not, rather than making deliberately insulting comments about them. If you have nothing constructive to add to the subject that this thread started Gulo Gulo, I suggest you refrain from taking part in the discussion.
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Message 27
Posted by FowPah (U1746998) on Tuesday, 15th November 2005
OK
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Message 28
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Tuesday, 15th November 2005
No i don't,it's made up rubbish with zero proof.Ìý
from the outside all religious belief is "made up rubbish with zero proof" yet experientually i have a reason to explore reincarnation as a possibility and not merely disregard it...in terms of accademic history i dont have any problems knowing when somebody is speaking unqualified nonesense. but an individual's belief system and exists in an entirely different sphere.
if you interpret negative proof or the absense of proof of an existance after death as 'this is all there is' and 'our lives are chance events' that is up to you...it is another theory. i guess you're statement affliates you to the 'science will eventually explain everything - it just hasnt yet' camp. which would mean that your reasoning is simply a matter of faith also (but then again you could be a Christian).
you might also note that none of the contributors to this thread who share the origional posters belief agree with the sense of his posting.
cheers for your insight. -
Message 29
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Wednesday, 16th November 2005
I'm not very good at explaining these things but I'll give it a try. You've heard of amnesia, loss of memory? Well true to Newtonian priciples there is an opposite effect called Paramnesia, where the memory works in a kind of 'turbo overtime' remembering childhood books, TV progs you may have seen, what granny wore at Xmas 15 years ago, etc,etc. and everything gets a little bit jumbled between fact and fiction. Many (if not most) academics with a little medical knowledge will tell you THAT is what you are experiencing with past life regression and the like, hence it is totally unreliable. Does paramnesia exist?? Well...if you've ever experienced something commonly known as "deja vu" you'll know what I mean. Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý -
Message 30
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Wednesday, 16th November 2005
I'm not very good at explaining these things but I'll give it a try. You've heard of amnesia, loss of memory? Well true to Newtonian priciples there is an opposite effect called Paramnesia, where the memory works in a kind of 'turbo overtime' remembering childhood books, TV progs you may have seen, what granny wore at Xmas 15 years ago, etc,etc. and everything gets a little bit jumbled between fact and fiction. Many (if not most) academics with a little medical knowledge will tell you THAT is what you are experiencing with past life regression and the like, hence it is totally unreliable. Does paramnesia exist?? Well...if you've ever experienced something commonly known as "deja vu" you'll know what I mean. Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý Ìý
i except and agree with what you're saying to a certain extent. and am aware of that explaination...it is a good one in most instances. i dont trust hypnitic regression, etc, etc, for that reason. however Paramnesia doesn't fit nor explain much of what i've personal experienced or what i've experienced with others. but to explain i would be contigent on a whole parapsychological can of worms which i'd find difficult to qualify here, and i'd just be presenting a set of unsubstatiated anecdotes anyway. what i do agree with is that it is totally unreliable.
cheers -
Message 31
Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý
lol
good god man, we don't use them cos they are twadle
"in my past life I was Charles 1st's executioner"
"well i was Charles 1st"!!
Everytime I have heard about it or seen it on tv they always get the facts wrong and almost always have something glamorous in the past. I have yet to hear about someone who has always been a serf with no glorious past life. Someone who farmed and never did anything else
load of old bunkum -
Message 32
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý
lol
good god man, we don't use them cos they are twadle
"in my past life I was Charles 1st's executioner"
"well i was Charles 1st"!!
Everytime I have heard about it or seen it on tv they always get the facts wrong and almost always have something glamorous in the past. I have yet to hear about someone who has always been a serf with no glorious past life. Someone who farmed and never did anything else
load of old bunkumÌý
i admire your certainty Richie...i wish i was so sure about things out of the realms of my own experience. -
Message 33
Posted by goodoldphilusa (U2519971) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
The last message posted made snide remarks about your request followed by "have a nice..."
Do not be discouraged. Ridicule is the argument of the mob. Have you read "Life Before Life" by Helen Wambach? It sheds hopes of life on the issue of when independant energy enters the womb, and therefore it impacts the moral issues of abortion. In other words if "life" comes in as an entity at best two months before birth is not "when life begins" impacted? -
Message 34
Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý
lol
good god man, we don't use them cos they are twadle
"in my past life I was Charles 1st's executioner"
"well i was Charles 1st"!!
Everytime I have heard about it or seen it on tv they always get the facts wrong and almost always have something glamorous in the past. I have yet to hear about someone who has always been a serf with no glorious past life. Someone who farmed and never did anything else
load of old bunkumÌý
i admire your certainty Richie...i wish i was so sure about things out of the realms of my own experience. Ìý
its not so much certainty but that the whole concept relies on smoke and mirrors, its a very religious setup and most unscientific in its approach.
Its a nice idea, but how much of it is romantic idle wishing, sugestion and good old fashioned mumbo jumbo.
If and its a big if, someone can show proof that someone has regressed and can prove it with facts, locations etc then I may well change my position, but as I say, everytime I have heard about this or seen it on a documentary it has always ended leaving me in no uncertain terms that it was just romantic idle wishmaking and nothing more -
Message 35
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Why isnot more use made of past life regression, hypnotic regression, reincarnation therapy, soul memory retrieval to find out more about the past. Why spend all yourtime digging in mudwhen by use of reincarnation memory retrieval you could talk to people who were there.
Ìý
lol
good god man, we don't use them cos they are twadle
"in my past life I was Charles 1st's executioner"
"well i was Charles 1st"!!
Everytime I have heard about it or seen it on tv they always get the facts wrong and almost always have something glamorous in the past. I have yet to hear about someone who has always been a serf with no glorious past life. Someone who farmed and never did anything else
load of old bunkumÌý
i admire your certainty Richie...i wish i was so sure about things out of the realms of my own experience. Ìý
its not so much certainty but that the whole concept relies on smoke and mirrors, its a very religious setup and most unscientific in its approach.
Its a nice idea, but how much of it is romantic idle wishing, sugestion and good old fashioned mumbo jumbo.
If and its a big if, someone can show proof that someone has regressed and can prove it with facts, locations etc then I may well change my position, but as I say, everytime I have heard about this or seen it on a documentary it has always ended leaving me in no uncertain terms that it was just romantic idle wishmaking and nothing moreÌý
i have never seen a convincing documentary either...and there is an obvious reason why you never hears about people who claim ordinary past lives...that isnt how the media works. i have no idea what you're refering to when the whole concept relies on smoke and mirrors...but i can say, whilst you're rubbishing my belief system, that if that belief system was based on romantic idle wishmaking i would have made up a more interesting and less bleak past life memory for myself.
one time i told a friend about an impression had of what i felt might was a fragment of her past life, much of which was non-verbal. i told her in some detail...when i'd finnished she told me that she had been told the same details on two previous occasions. this friend has no great interest in history, no belief system that would support re-incarnation, she has never been regressed and has no memory of her own to support the three identical claims...no, it isnt scientific, we were having a cup of tea at the time...so not exactly test conditions either. and if it were merely based on my own testimony i may've dismissed it out of hand. for the basic impression was that my friend had been a Jewish man, who had commited sucide in the Warsaw Ghetto...with my interest in the Holocaust combined the fact that she is a Germam woman with Polish parents means ofcourse that i could've easily fabricated it all for myself...but, then there were the two troublesome overlapping previous testimonies. i cant find an alternative explaination which is completely adaquate. i'm laying myself open to some more of your ridicule here Richie...so i hope you apprechiate i've not imagined or made-up this small event.
cheers -
Message 36
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Friday, 18th November 2005
hi again Richie,
i also should add a couple of points...that in the 1990s i was envolved in a study by Edinburgh Uni, parapsychology unit, which is with in their psychology dept...it was certainly under test condition...and i scored pretty high...i dont know what they did with the over-all test result however or what they concluded...but it wasnt a hokey medicine show...
and...as far as sensationalism in past life memory and the accuracy of detail goes...to represent my first 6 years (in this life) i have a hazy memory of a birthday, a christmas, getting my first dog, the family cat running away, and the morning after my grandmother's death...all emotive and loaded events (for the same reason i cant recall any significant details which illuminate my daily routine of 1984-5). my early childhood adds up by to about three-quarters of an hour worth of active memory at most...and (like Roland Barthes) when i see a photograph of my mother from that period she is not how my memory reconstructs her...and the wall paper in the living room is shockingly different too...my past life memory is pretty much the same hazy short and traumatic events only. but enough.
but i do know people who have got researchable names and dates which seem to support or atleast give a thought provoking arguement for their specific past life claims...(any other explaination would have to be equally out there in X-Files land) possibly somebody who died violently in war is more likely to have an inprint of that memory than somebody who never left their home village and died peacefully in their beds...i donno how it works...and i acdept that many claims are probably bogus for the reasons that have been stated in this thread...but i dont feel able to discount and as i have said the usual rational explainations are also inadaquate to explain away all of my personal experieces and conversations with others...or to conclude that i am mentally faulty just yet (ofcourse you may have alreadyjudged me differently).
...and i nigh add i dont use any of this when writing history...
best wishes,
Sean -
Message 37
Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Sean
Sorry for the delay in reply but I don't have the opportunity to use the Â鶹ԼÅÄ in work much these days.
I did not mean to rubbish your belief systems (which is something that happens with regularity on the Religions board) and I appologise if that is how it came across to you. It is just that to me at least past life regression seems as much to do with wishfull thinking as my thinking every Saturday at 7pm that in half an hour or so I will be ordering my Merc and the house in the Caymans.
If as you say Edinburgh Uni did a research paper I for one would be interested in seeing or hearing about their conclusions. If humans do possess somesort of past memory it would be a wonderfull thing and I would be amoungst the first in the queue to see what if anything there is in my memory of lives in years past. Your story about your German friend is interesting and indeed as you say if there was just your testomony then I would put it down to overactive imagination and a collective guilt syndrome in the German pschye in general, but as you say with two independant backups to the story then yes it does enter the "X Files" situation.
I can accept that there is an awful lot out there that is difficult if not down right impossible to give logical modern answers to and that our "knowledge" is largely overwhelmed by our ignorance of a great many things, the supernatural amoungst them.
As I said, personally I still for the moment at least think that past life regression is at its best and most honourable simple wishmaking, but I am open to be convinced otherwise and I hope that I have not offended you with this as that is not my intent at all
Best Regards
Rich -
Message 38
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
hi again Rich,
cheers for getting back to me...i understand that everyone has got the time on their hands as i have .
yes...as i said...i have no trust of past life regression myself.
the study in Edinburgh was not conected with past life regression...it was a more regular ESP type of study (much of which involved describing postcards in sealed envolopes which were also unknown to the persons doing the testing. i tended to favour doing rough sketches of the unseen postcards because i am very visual, sometimes i could only produce an abstract of the picture, othertimes i could produced a detailed rendition of the scene...again i have no idea how this works...it often is very random. i mention it because it might be an alternative explaination as to why three people could give the same testimony to my German friend...that they could be reading a simplistic false memory in picture form. the existance of ESP forms is alot more scientifically paletable than the notion of past lives (although it still would be odd for my friend to have formed a hidden guilt holocaust based memory. for although her family had lived in Berlin since the early 1970s, and she is steeped in Germaness, both her parents are Polish form a village which fluxuated between being part Poland and being part of Germany. she is 30 year old and for many reasons she feels no connection to the guilt ridden generation of Germans. she if anything shared the present backlash against compulsery guilt (incidently my three other close German friends all had grandfathers, both faternal and maternal in one case, who were early SA and SS officers and they dont feel any personal responsibility either). my knowlege of my friends memory...whether or not it was false or respresented some kind of past life remains one of the strangest experiences i've ever had. for a moment it was as if i was re-experiencing her (his) memory...i knew that i was viewing antic room in which i lived...i knew a number of SS were searching the tenement for me imparticularly.
this was all kicked-off when two very youthful policemen entered the cafe we were drinking tea in ...and my friend began to laugh hysterically (he later told me she always has this uncontrolable reaction towards uniformed Policemen). she still has no interest in the possibility of a past life...and no connection to mine or the other two testamonies. none of which, she says, contradict each others although each adds extra explaination. i'm not sure if the other two people provide her with a name (mine didnt)but all asserted that she had been male and engaged in some resistance activity which neccessitated suicide that than interrogation for the indivual had a great fear of betraying commrades.
other paranormal experiences i've had could be explained away as audio and visual hallucination (indeed i think many were) but again there is another catagory that invovle other people...and i've not heard an explaination of how mass hallucination works that isnt also guessing.
cheers,
Sean -
Message 39
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Richie...
just went over to the Religion boards for the first time which i've only ever glanced at...glad that i dont feel that strongly about such stuff...its like the Wild West over there...
Sean -
Message 40
Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
Richie...
just went over to the Religion boards for the first time which i've only ever glanced at...glad that i dont feel that strongly about such stuff...its like the Wild West over there...
SeanÌý
lol, umm, yes, it can get a little heated over there. I am sometimes involved with that but I have ome personal antagonists there and well lets just say that our views differ, lol
the history boards are far more polite and pleasant beleive me -
Message 41
Posted by ramseesIII (U2613757) on Thursday, 1st December 2005
Hypnosis isnt accurate and can be refuted in the way other sources cannot be. Hypnosis is good for understanding where an individual comes from
and explaining there path or actions in the present, it is not good for understanding where other groups of people came from and events that took place in their lives in a shared way.
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