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MRB (multi - role Brigades). Future Force ?

• Message 1.Μύ

  Posted by David James Wall (U14752090) on Thursday, 11th August 2011

  Thursday 11th August, 2011. BST:0938
  Re: MRB (multi - role Brigades).
  Having recently looked at the MOD (Ministry of Defence) web - site and noted the requirements of the SDSR (Strategic Defence and Security Review) I note that the British Army in 2020 will have a total force structure of 120,000 made up of 70% regulars and 30% territorials. Included in this 'Future Force' are 5 (five) so called MRB's (multi - role Brigades). Although they are described as 'all things to all men', no real description of their construction (makeup) was included in the various outlines I read.
  Given that historically a BRIGADE was composed of 3000 men (usually five battalions of 600 men), what do you understand an MRB to be made up of today? What type of kit and equipment do you think it will be armed with in the present term and how will it operate in action?

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• Message 2

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  Posted by TrailApe (U1701496) on Friday, 12th August 2011

  From Wiki
  
  
  Five large multirole Brigades will be created. The brigade structure will constitute:[5]
  
  One armoured regiment of Challenger 2 tanks
  One armoured reconnaissance regiment
  One armoured infantry battalion in Warrior Armoured Fighting Vehicles
  One mechanised infantry battalion in FV432 Bulldog armoured vehicles
  Two light role infantry battalions
  
  
  Although I have heard that CR2 is being axed (very quietly) so the MBT's will probably be replaced with a Stryker type vehicle

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• Message 3

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  Posted by David James Wall (U14752090) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Tuesday 11th October, 2011. BST:1037
  Re: 'Future Force'.
  With respect to the MOD (Ministry of Defence); given that the British Army in 2020 will have a total force structure of 120,00 what will this consist of? Historically the FIELD ARMY was 150,00 'soldiers under arms'. It was made up of 3 (three)Corps of 5 (five) Divisions. Each Division was made up of 3 (three) Brigades. Each Brigade was made up of 5 (five) Battalions of 600 men. Consequently 15 Divisons of 9 - 10000 men, each made a total FIELD ARMY of 150, 000 'soldiers under arms'. Historically SUPPORT SEVICES, as now maintained were few and far between; men 'doubled up' as field engineer etc. constructing 'fortifications and engineering' and undertaking the survey work to 'lay a gun'. Given the present condition where RS, RA, RE, REME, Royal Logistical Corps and Army Air Corps are available at Divisional Strength (ie. between 10 - 12,000 tradesmen all told), what is the breakdown of the proposed total force structure of 120,000?
  My real concern is that the proposed MRB (multi - role Brigades) which will total 5 (five) Brigades in number, will only have a total number of 15,000 men.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by David James Wall (U14752090) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Tuesday 11th October, 2011. BST:1223
  Re: 'Future Force'.
  With respect to the MOD (Ministry of Defence); in reply to the previous question perhaps I should have noted that historically there were 3 (three) Battalions of 600 men in each Line Regiment or Regiment of Foot albeit only 1 (one) Battalion in each Line Regiment (usually the 3rd Battalion or Assault Battalion) saw combat action at any one time. If the proposed 5 (five) MRB (multi - role Brigades) consist of 5 (five) Battalions individually and total 3000 (three thousand) men in all then collectively they will consist of 25 (twenty - five) Battalions altogether and have a total number of 15,000 men in combat action, ie. 25 x 600 men. If Line Regimental Order is maintained then there will be 25 (twenty - five) Line Regiments with 1,800 men each making a total FIELD ARMY of 45,000 (forty - five thousand). If you add Divisional Strength SUPPORT SERVICES then the total British Army will number approximately 57,000 (fifty - seven thousand) and not the total force structure of 120,000 described in the SDSR (Strategic Defence and Security Review). As far as the so called COLD WAR was concerned BAOR (British Army on the Rhine) was never more than 58,000 (fifty - eight thousand) at its height, so nothing much has changed you might suggest.
  As far as the SDSR is concerned, where did this total force structure of 120,000 men originate; who called for it in the first place? I was under the impression that the world had changed since 1989 and that there was meant to be a COLD WAR DIVIDEND?

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Nielsen3 (U14417619) on Wednesday, 12th October 2011

  Dear David James Wall,
  
  
  If you'll permit someone not British to participate in ths thread, I'd like to put an oar into these troubled waters.
  
  With all the respect due to the MOD and to the publishers of political papers, proposing what may be the requirements some eight years in advance, I seem to recall from the past that usually strange and unexpected things tend to happen, which will subsequently turn over apple cart(s).
  
  And those fine figures you report, I suppose them to be solidly based in wishful thinking on behalf of some Whitehall Mandarin who've probably never sullied himself by a single days soldiering, and only think himself certain in his theories.
  
  The only ones who'll make anything from this, will be the makers of new weaponry and the quill-pushers permanently in power.
  
  And, if I may, 'War is only the continuation of politics by other means', and 'No strategic plan ever survived the first shots of battle'.
  
  
  Regards, Nielsen3
  
  

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• Message 6

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  Posted by colonelblimp (U1705702) on Thursday, 13th October 2011

  Dear David James Wall,
  
  
  If you'll permit someone not British to participate in ths thread, I'd like to put an oar into these troubled waters.
  
  With all the respect due to the MOD and to the publishers of political papers, proposing what may be the requirements some eight years in advance, I seem to recall from the past that usually strange and unexpected things tend to happen, which will subsequently turn over apple cart(s).
  
  And those fine figures you report, I suppose them to be solidly based in wishful thinking on behalf of some Whitehall Mandarin who've probably never sullied himself by a single days soldiering, and only think himself certain in his theories.
  
  The only ones who'll make anything from this, will be the makers of new weaponry and the quill-pushers permanently in power.
  
  And, if I may, 'War is only the continuation of politics by other means', and 'No strategic plan ever survived the first shots of battle'.
  
  
  Regards, Nielsen3
  
  Μύ If by "Whitehall Mandarin" you mean "civil servant", then, with all due respect, they don't dictate force structures. That's done by the UNIFORMED "quill pushers", of whom there is a great abundance. If you do some research on the Defence Analytical Services Agency website:
  
  
  
  you'll discover that the Army has one commissioned officer on the payroll for every 6.4 NCOs and privates. Across the Services as a whole, there are 1.7 officers and NCOs for every private, ordinary seaman or aircraftman. Given that information, it doesn't take Einstein to deduce that a great many of these people aren't in fighting units but are in fact doing office jobs. At the top of this Ruritanian rank structure are no fewer than 500 officers at 1* rank (Brigadier/ Commodore/ Air Commodore) or above. Many of them are indeed in Whitehall, and some are deciding on future requirements. If there weren't quite so many brasshats with nothing to command, there might be more money to spend on meeting those requirements.

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Nielsen3 (U14417619) on Thursday, 13th October 2011

  colonelblimp,
  
  You, Sir, I can take seriously, and I shall read the link, thank you for pointing me towards it.
  
  The style of the OP somehow reminded me of a previous poster who made many claims to notority - some might say ridiculously many - and all probably based on an alledged yet never (to be) proven descendance from either ancient Greek civilisation and/or relationship to many minor and major royal houses from AD 500 forwards and/or a female brewer who apparently emigrated to the Americas during those colonies early settlement.- that I somehow forgot to take him quite serious.
  
  Regards, Nielsen

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