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what role geography has played in expanding the British empire?

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by AlexanderLiberty (U14397753) on Sunday, 6th March 2011

  hello everyone,
  Some scholars think that the expansion of the British Empire was determined by cartographers. Indeed, accurate maps allow victorious military operations and safer shipping. But if this is true, Why the British maps were superior to other nations maps e.g. Spanish?. Before the discovery of America the major maritime powers and navigators were in the Mediterranean sea.
  
  I would like to learn more about British mapping.
  
  bye

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Sunday, 6th March 2011

  Alexander,
  
  I don't think it has necessarly to do with the British empire? Every empire or business empire as that of the Dutch in the 17th century worked in my opinion along the same lines. Where there was a need they were seeking for accurate maps, even from older Italian or Portugese sources.
  
  Something about cartography and maps:
  
  
  About the history of cartography:
  
  Read from page 116 on...
  
  
  Read the chapter: "Mapping the discoveries"
  Especially in the Dutch Republic use for business.
  Quoting from there:
  "both a consumer good and a capital good, an item for display and and item for business use..."
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Paul.
  
  
  

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• Message 3

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  Posted by AlexanderLiberty (U14397753) on Monday, 7th March 2011

  I agree with you Paul, every empire or superpower (e.g. US, China, Russia) needs maps, but the idea is not mine. It's the idea of a documentary refers to the religious war between France and England in 1500 (I have not seen it).
  
  (Italian language)
  This is only an introduction to the documentary.
  Probably, it's an English or American documentary but I don't not know the original title. I will try to find somenthing on you tube.
  
  thanks for the links, They're very useful.
  
  bye
  

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• Message 4

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  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 7th March 2011

  Re: Message 3.
  
  Alexander,
  
  thanks for the reply. I have seen the short introduction to the film and found where you can see the films but this one wasn't included. It 's from a commercial Italian TV station "la 7" and as I had a look for for instance the film: "le grandi battaglie navali della storia" (the great naval battles of history" it is a bit "geographical magazine" channel style but more commercial. If it is a video I can follow in Italian although I don't understand everything.
  So in that particular film they spoke about the "Armada Invincibile" and the better cannons of the English. I did already for these boards research about the difference in cannons between the Spanish and English ones, but it was not only that. We have discussed here already the disaster of the Armada Invincibile but, without being too proud, I would say our contributors discussed it more in depth....
  If you understand Italian:
  
  And I am nearly sure as I see the film that it is an entirely Italian production.
  But I have to say as opposed to the interesting French/German Arte 7+ (if you understand French or German), the Italian ones are full of advertisements and you can not as on you tube always move your cursor if you aren't interested in a part (even if it is an advertisement break, there is no cursor at all to move).
  
  I found some summary on the net of the video you mentioned.
  The maps of Gerard Mercator (from the Spanish Netherlands' Antwerp (my comment)) have contributed to the empire of England (Yes in Italian they say Ingleterra instaid of Britain).
  If that is the leading summary of the film I find it but a bit "poor"....
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Paul.
  

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• Message 5

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  Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Tuesday, 8th March 2011

  Not necessarily the maps, but British navigation in the latter part of the C18th was superior. The British (specifically John Harrison) were the first to crack the problem of determining longitude at sea:
  
  
  
  I gather that it's possible to determine longitude on land using very complex astronomical calculations, so some maps could have been accurate, but knowing where you are on the map was still a problem.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by Stoggler (U14387762) on Tuesday, 8th March 2011

  I'm not aware of the British being regarded as having superior maps, unless you count the OS maps we use today!
  
  Admiralty Charts are however used all over the world even today, so perhaps it's these you are referring to, but they are more the product of more recent times, after the main European expansion and empire building.
  
  Cartography was more advanced on continental Europe for much of the period of European exploration and expansion, especially as the English and then the British were playing catch up with the Spanish, Portuguese, French etc. Also, the Italian city states with their trading links to the east had very good maps to hand.
  
  Certainly by the 18th century the British were capable of producing as good maps as anywhere else, and I imagine (speculation alert!) that due to their seafaring nature that they may have surveyed more of the world than any other nation at that time.

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• Message 7

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011

  English military cartography in the early 18th century was indeed superior in many ways to that of its contemporaries, though it should be said that the superiority lay not necessarily in the draughtsmanship employed but more in the scope with which it was applied. In the preceding half century the English armed forces, both army and navy, had quite consciously sought to emulate the high standards and eaxctitude of representation typified by Dutch cartography (and employed many Dutch in the process). They also quickly adopted the French innovation of transforming military engineers into a professional class in their own right and providing patronage for that class from state coffers. This elevated mapmakers in social rank, a development which had also a knock-on effect in civilian life for the same profession. Indeed the distinction was often rather blurred as mapmakers frequently enjoyed commission in both fields.
  
  Probably the greatest innovation however, and long before the Ordnance Survey was established, was the assiduous collection of cartographical data by the War Office from basically any worthwhile source it could identify, an initiative started by William Blathwayt which very rapidly led to a comprehensive ordnance survey not just of England, but of just about anywhere in the world mapped by anyone for military purposes. So valuable a possession was this collection that a whole industry arose from simply copying the documents then stored in Horse Guards and the storage itself was afforded the same security as bullion or arms. Seizure of the enemy's maps after a military victory was considered almost as prestigious as capturing its leaders. Cadogan, speaking of his one time commander John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough, listed such acquisition as one of the man's greatest achievements in the oration he delivered at his funeral.
  
  It was to be a while before other countries copped on to the value of pursuing such a policy and it would be well over a century and a half before any other country came close to matching the English in terms of maintaining what was essentially a global cartographical database.

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by AlexanderLiberty (U14397753) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011

  thanks paul.
  The documentary about the geography would probably not be available, only a fraction of those sent is then repeated. The selection criteria are unknown to me.
  
  However I will watch β€œthe great naval battles” that I lost , I watched only the second part about the Viking raids in Dublin.
  
  I understand enough French but not much German, then ARTE +7 is an excellent suggestion.
  
  Well, Italians say literally Inghil (Angles) terra (land) Angles’ Land, the Roman heritage is very strong in Italian culture and language.
  
  In conclusion, I think the British had no maps particularly superior to other countries, but the union of scientific knowledge (e.g.The Royal Society, The Newton’s Principia), commercial skills and seafaring nature have determined the strength of the British Empire and the apogee called Pax Britannica.
  
  Thank you all for your contributions.
  
  
  
  

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011

  Re: Message 8.
  
  Alexander,
  
  thanks for the reply. May I am that impertinent to ask if you are from Italian descent by any chance? On the French messageboard I mentioned several times overhere, there is a "knowledgeable" man, from Italian descent living near Fessenheim Alsace France. And due to these circumstances he speaks as first language French and also Italian and German....
  
  See you in another thread, kind regards,
  
  Paul.

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011

  Re: Message 7.
  
  Nordmann,
  
  many thanks for this interesting and in depth message about a subject I wasn't aware of till now. Right to the point as always.
  
  Kind regards and with esteem,
  
  Paul.

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• Message 11

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  Posted by AlexanderLiberty (U14397753) on Thursday, 10th March 2011

  Re: Message 8.
  
  Alexander,
  
  thanks for the reply. May I am that impertinent to ask if you are from Italian descent by any chance? On the French messageboard I mentioned several times overhere, there is a "knowledgeable" man, from Italian descent living near Fessenheim Alsace France. And due to these circumstances he speaks as first language French and also Italian and German....
  
  See you in another thread, kind regards,
  
  ±Κ²Ή³ά±τ.Μύ Hi Paul,
  I'm not French. I am Italian of the north. In this area of the country we have many contacts with the French and German-speaking world for business and tourism. The same goes for English.
  This area was dominated by the French, the Spanish Empire (I studied some Spanish) and the Austrian Habsburgs.
  So often you learn many languages ​​the same dialects are the result of this domain. It's a very international region.
  Even from the religious point of view, for example here are the major Protestant communities.
  
  I would add that I studied Latin and ancient greek in high school and it was time well spent.
  
  
  From the historical point of view I believe is similar to the Benelux region.
  
  kind regards,
  
  Alexander
  
  

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