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The forgotten men of WWII - the merchant navy

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Arthur Sealby (U14591829) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010

  We regularly have news and history items on the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ about anniversaries on World War 2 (namely the Battle of Britain and the D-Day landings) as well as organisations such as the Land Girls. All have been given their deserved recognition for their contribution to the war effort. However, there is one group of men that did much to save Britain during the war and enable the country to continue the fight and that was the Merchant Navy. Yet these men were treated quite badly (notably by the Admiralty - who did not view them as real seamen!) and this treatment has continued long after the war. Their losses were higher than any of the armed forces and their conflict lasted for 4 years. As late as the spring of 1943 Churchill was seriously concerned that the allies might not be able to continue fighting the war because of the disastrous losses to the merchant fleet. Without the supply of materials (fuel, raw materials and food) the Air Force would not have been able to continue the Battle of Britain and the 8th Army would not have been able to mount the campaign in North Africa. Channel 4 did a 3 part series on the conveys recently but it was all from the point of view of the Royal Navy and no Merchant Navy personnel were interviewed. I believe that it was only in recent years that the Merchant Navy was allowed to take part in the ceremony at the Cenotaph in Whitehall. It is time that some recogntion and thanks were given to these brave men who were the unarmed targets of the U-boats.

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010

  I remember talking to a senior RN Officer back in 1993 at the 50th Battle of the Atlantic parade in Liverpool. He made the remark. We ran around getting all the glory but, and he pointed to the MN men marching past. It didn't matter what we did, because without those brave chaps we would have lost the war.

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  Posted by MB (U177470) on Monday, 23rd August 2010

  And of course their pay was stopped when their ship sank. Also they had to be killed directly by enemy action to be classed as a war casualty by the CWGC, dying of exposure in a lifeboat did not count.
  
  

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  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Tuesday, 24th August 2010

  Not helped by the fact that their Board of Trade life jackets were designed to break their knecks if the they from their ship feet first into the water. Then you had the ship owners who were in it to make money. If they lost a ship they received a new one from HMG. So they would send ships to see that I wouldn't trust to cross from Liverpool to Birkenhead.Or declared that SS Wanderer was a fast ship and she would be assigned to a fast convoy, knowing that the last time she had done the required speed of a fast convoy was ten/twenty or even more years ago. The convoy would then be faced with the choice of slowing down and risking everybody. Or leaving the ship to her fate. Really, this was an act of murder by the ship owner.

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  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010

  Oh, Southport. (Which isn't a port) is about to unveil a memorial to the Merchant Service. In Bootle Town Hall, the flags of the different shipping lines line the assemble hall, while in the council chamber, the battle flags from many of Captain Walkers 2nd Escort Group line the walls, along with the General Chase.signal flags.All well worth seeing.

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  Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 29th August 2010

  They are represented (along with the other "civilian services") at the Cenotaph on Remebrance Sunday each year, but, yes, they should be better known for their service, as has been pointed out, without them, in Kipling's words,
  "For the bread that you eat and the biscuits you nibble,
  The sweets that you suck and the joints that you carve,
  They are brought to you daily by All Us Big Steamers
  And if any one hinders our coming you'll starve!"Β 
  
  

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  Posted by Gillianzz (U14586450) on Monday, 6th September 2010

  It's about time Merchant seamen got proper recognition.
  
  Too late for my old dad though.

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  Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010

  I absolutely agree with all the remarks about the MN personnel. I once had the details of an ex-trawler skipper who served in both wars with a commendation from both too!
  However, may I point out that loss of pay when faced with similar circumstances was not confined to the MN. Even as late as the 1960's managers on the railway(among other industries I think) were instructed to record the exact time when an injured member of staff was lifted onto the stretcher. Pay stopped at that time.

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Arthur Sealby (U14591829) on Monday, 27th September 2010

  The cessation of pay when a ship was lost was rectified in April 1941 by the Merchant Navy Reserve Pool Act when pay was guaranteed until the seamen got another ship. The dangers of having your ship torpedoed were immense, especially if your ship was an oil tanker or carrying combustible material such as ammunition or timber. In these cases very few seamen survived. Also, when they were in the sea they had to rely on RN corvettes to be rescued which could be virtually impossible in heavy seas. There was also no knowledge of hypothermia at the time so that many rescued seamen subsequently died because of the lack of correct treatment. There is a very good book by Richard Woodman - "The Real Cruel Sea" - that details all Atlantic convoys together with some very harrowing personal accounts.

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