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Englandspiel

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 8th August 2005

  as promised I make this message especially for the American John (jesw1962) and the Dutch born Dirk Marinus and if he is interested for Ernmekar (Or something like that. Gilgamesh, was easier, but I will be used to it in the future)
  
  Englandspiel: Huub Lauwers had been dropped in Holland by the British SOE (Special Observation Executive). On 3 January 1942 he sent his first code message. On 6 March he was arrested by the German Abwehr. The agents were briefed before if they came in German custody that they had to send "know from before" mistakes. The Germans knew that that was the case, but, when "convinced" by the Germans to work for them he sent not the known to the SOE mistakes but another mistake "stip" and "step" instead of "stop". He thouhgt that the British would see it immedately, but they didn't see it. So the Dutch branch of the SOE send during two years agents to Holland and Belgium and they were everytime captured by the Germans and jailed in Haaren.At the end 59 agents were captured and most of them died in Nazi camps. In Belgium some ten. Huub Lauwers survived. In the beginning of 1944 by the escape of two agents Dourlein and Ubbink London was englightened about the affair.
  
  Tons of dropped equipment were seized by the Germans and some 200 resistants were trapped by this "game". At the apogee the Germans of the Englandspiel: the Abwehr had 15 SOE radioconnections with England.
  
  Type once in Google: Englandspiel daily telegraph august.
  
  First window first entry about Leo Marks. also fourth entry about pynchonoid.
  
  See also the book of Jo Wolters (jurist), who made a thesis at the university about the Englandspiel: Dossier Nordpol. Unternehmen Nord. ISBN 90 5352882 2
  
  The Dutch historian Professor dr L. de jong and the Brtish historian M.R.D. Foot reject Wolter's allegations.
  
  About what is the controversy? Some say and they are backed by new information: see the Daily Telegraph Monday 16 august 2004 about secret files made available now that the SOE was double cross the "Spiel" offering the Dutch agents to mistify the Nazis and let them believe that an invason would be in Holland and also to receive real information from the Germans, who had to send by their British marconists some credible information to not alarm the British of the capturing. It seems that Leo Marks(a member from the SOE) warned the SOE nearly immediately of the anomalies and the supposed capturing and they wanted not to listen...
  
  Read also a balanced message of the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ. Google: Englandspiel: Fourth window, second entry: Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ news Saturday 3 January 2004 00:26 GMT.
  
  Some leftist conspiracy specialists made also a lot of murders of it in Holland after 1945 to hide some involvement by the British and Dutch Royal families and oilconnections...Read Willem Sanders head of the BNV in the Netherlands in 1945.
  
  Awaiting everyone's comments, kind regards.
  
  

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Huscarl (U1753368) on Tuesday, 9th August 2005

  [quote]British SOE (Special Observation Executive)[/quote]
  
  Hi Paul
  
  I don't mean to sound pedantic, but I believe that it was titled 'Special Operations executive'.
  
  But I could beleive that what you say above is true- a dirty way to fight and win a dirty, desperate war?
  
  I saw the UKtv series 'SOE: Special Operations Executive' a few years ago, and remember the apparent ignorance of the powers that be, who repeatedly refused to 'read' the deliberate mistakes purposely misspelt in codes sent by captured agents(as previously trained) in order to covertly warn their masters back in England, without arousing the suspicion or wrath of the Nazis who now controlled their messages as they typed them.
  
  Makes one's blood run cold, eh?
  
  Regards.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Thursday, 11th August 2005

  Ironside,
  
  reply to message 2.
  
  Thank you very much for your interesting reply. Yes, makes one's blood run cold.
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Paul.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Thursday, 11th August 2005

  Hiya Paul.
  
  
  I am still awaiting other replies on your thread on the England Spiel.
  
  Actually if you have the chance try to log in on a Belgian website ;
  
  www.indymedia.all2all.org/
  
  And look for a link called Geheime kennis & Geschiedenis.
  
  Logging in on search engine google and looking for names like Screieder and Giskes could also give you some more info.
  
  There are also some Dutch websites which have the England Spiel as a discussion point, and some of them still maintain that the whole set up was just a mask to cover certain Dutch and British Royals.
  
  It is a pitty that men such as Giskes and Schreieder did not leave any memoirs or documentation on the England Spiel, or did they and it all disappeared?

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Thursday, 11th August 2005

  Paul Ryckier,
  
  Just to give a bit more information to you: a
  Philip Dröge wrote a book called " Beroep Meesterspion " Het geheime leven van Prins Bernard
  ( for the benefit of English speaking posters the translation is " Occupation Masterspy" The secret live of Prince Bernard).
  
  I believe it was published by Vassalucci in Amsterdam in 2002.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by dmatt74 (U1690430) on Thursday, 11th August 2005

  The files at The National Archives, Kew, England are interesting especially about North Pole as Englandspiel was also called. The SOE operations were confused by not knowing what was happening as it was unclear who was in charge of Dutch Intelligence after one person was removed (and who were people who could be trusted when the SOE agents landed) and that lead to an inquiry in The Netherlands in 1945-1946. The files also list all those who took part in operations and what it was thought had happened to them and when.
  
  The various operations and the activities of double-agents like "King Kong" made operations difficult.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Friday, 12th August 2005

  To those who are interested in this still intriguing story go and visit:
  
  
  www. perso.wanadoo.fr/doofpot.nl/D5.EnglandSpiel
  
  
  Although the page coming up is in the Dutch language just scroll down halfway and you will come upon the English translation.
  
  After you have read the story ,come back and let's discuss.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Saturday, 13th August 2005

  Dirk,
  
  reply to message 5.
  
  thank you very much for this information and the other ones in this thread. Have a look to my message 5 in your thread: "Of interest to Jozef and slavek poland" on this board.
  
  Warm regards.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by veritas (U1735705) on Sunday, 14th August 2005

  Having laways been interested in the history of the S.O.E and having read many of the books written on this, can we be left with any other conclusion that war is just an immoral and dirty business that cruely takes the best of people for the vilest of reasons.
  
  The governments/secret services has no compunction in being wolves in sheeps clothing, indeed the Judas sheep of political gain and power whatever the cost to ordinary brave people who are expendable in their eyes to the 'wider vision'?
  
  That 'Englandspiel' was such a trap, is to me, obvious. A detective worth half his salt would see that wartime archives 'detroyed by mysterious fire' in Baker street in 1946 were archives that could not be explained away in any truthful way.
  
  But then war is never built on a truth of any kind
  just a neccessity for some sort of political gain at all costs, mostly human.
  
  What has been forgotten in this case and many others that we all have some sort of choice whatever conditions we find ourselves in.
  
  It is obvious from this case and others, that trust between individuals is quickly built up because so much depends on trust, you also have to have a blind faith that you are doing that which is good to overcome that which is evil.
  This was the power held by the men of planning for others to do their bidding whatever the outcome.
  
  What other reason could agents have carried on going over when they were told that 95% could be expected to be arrested and obviously forfeit their lives?
  
  It is difficult to stay unemotive about the whole subject of the SOE, the heroism and the betrayals.
  
  IF anyone is to be held accountable, the buck stops with the commanders of SOE back here in London. Whatever else is said it is easier to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to others who are willing to die for their fellow countrymen whatever the cost.
  
  The cost is always too great, and benefits nothing and no-one imo.
  
  sorry if l have gone on, l am very anti-war because history proves it solves nothing, and creats more horrors waiting in the wings of time on the world stage.
  
  
  

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Tuesday, 23rd August 2005

  PaulRyckier: Thank you very much. It is always interesting to hear the other side sometimes. (My old grandpa used to say that it is impossible to fry a pancake so thin that it only has one side)

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Tuesday, 23rd August 2005

  Re: message 9.
  
  Veritas,
  
  excuse me very much for not answering to your great and emotional reply. I read it last week, but for some odd reason, I think the arrangement of these new boards, I forgot to reply. By this, I hope I made it good?
  
  I plan after my return from Newcastle an in depth study again of this stuff with the new information my Dutch born friend dirk marinus has brought in. I will do it also for John if he is still interested.
  
  Kind regards.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

  Report message11

• Message 12

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Tuesday, 23rd August 2005

  Re: message 10.
  
  John,
  
  thanks for the reply and have a look to my reply to Veritas: message 11.
  
  Kind regards.

  Link to this forum: Englandspiel

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