Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Β
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 2nd July 2010
We know that the RAF flew Spitfires and Hurricanes, and I believe a few Blenhams converted to fighters by fitting four machine guns to the nose. But what else The Defiants had taken a hammering and switched later to Night Fighters. The F A A also flew in the B of B as well as some Army Air Corps, so what did they fly? Also in the programe about the Poles the subject of RAF pilots with less than 15 hours training being sent in to combat was raised again, with leads me to ask why when you had more senior officers with more hours (Wing Commanders and above) sitting on their backsides, if we were so desperate and for pilots with the fate of the country at stake, why didn't Dowding do a sweep of stations and even Whitehall and send these men up. Yes their reactions would have been slower, but they must have been better than the 15 hours cannon fodder. Or if nothing else, they could have taken over say the Scottish sector thus releasing younger men to go south. And knowing that bombers coming from Norway would be without fighter cover, these senior pilots could flown Gladiators thus allowing the Hurricanes tied up in Scotland to go south with their pilots.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 2
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Friday, 2nd July 2010
All pretty good ideas Fred. I think in the end things worked out "ok" but no better than that. A few years ago I read a bigraphy by a Spitfire pilot called "First Light" I think - it was frightening how little experience these guys had. Reading a biography of Bader a few years agom he was certainly an old man compared to a lot of them, AND had far more flying experience. I am uncertain as to his "Big Wing" position (its controversial now) but his willingness to ditch "Bomber Attack No 3" and all that junk, to adopt the finger four, and even to make Sgt Pilots flight leaders (because that particular person was the best man for the job) has to be seen as good. And he urged his pilots to get close - you had to with 303s!!!
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 3
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 2nd July 2010
I would agree with the finger four. The RAF thing of keeping formation was all very nice at an air display, but in combat the pilots spent more time watching their positions than watching for the enemy.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 4
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Friday, 2nd July 2010
SS
I think you will find that it was Sailor Malan that urged his pilots to get close. 'Out of the sun' and all that in his Rules of Dogfighting. Although they were the same as those tactics that had been tried and tested in WW1. Years ago I read the firing pattern of a Vickers 303 was investigated in about 1930(I think I still have the Ministry report somewhere)and due to barrel whip etc very few of the bullets fired actually hit a target four feet by four feet at a hundred yards. I think that was the reason why the Air Ministry insisted on eight Brownings.
I too have read 'First Light' - one of the best.
The strange thing is that had we prepared earlier our pilots may have been better trained but if the expansion had it come too early then the aircraft would have been largely obsolete.Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 5
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Friday, 2nd July 2010
Very early model BF109s vs Gladiators thats a tough contest, though if I remember rightly the early 109s were not a patch on the E and upwards, maybe even comparable to the Polikarpov 16???
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 6
Posted by WarsawPact (U1831709) on Saturday, 3rd July 2010
Two Royal Naval Air Squadrons flew Fairey Fulmars in the Battle of Britain.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 7
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Saturday, 3rd July 2010
Covering which area? The early Fulmers were undergunned, and wouldn't have stood much chance against 109s or 110s.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 8
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Saturday, 3rd July 2010
Westland Whirlwinds? Possibly Grumman Martlets operating from Scotland?
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 9
Posted by WarsawPact (U1831709) on Saturday, 3rd July 2010
Indeed.
804 Squadron was based at RNAS Hatston in Orkney covering Scapa Flow
808 Squadron was based at RAF WickLink to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 10
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Sunday, 4th July 2010
W P thanks for that. They would have been able to hold their own against unescorted bombers, as the German fighters did not have the range to escort from Norway. The Whirlwind was a good aircraft although I think just to late for the B of B. Four nose mounted cannon giving it better firepower than both the Spits and Hurris. I gather there was problems with servicing and read somewhere it took half a day to change a wheel. It was the first allied aircraft to have the bubble cockpit, giving an all round view. The few squadrons that received the plane (Less I believe than a 100 made) went on to do ground attack work. Not sure if the Gruman Martlet had arrived in 1940.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 11
Posted by merlin (U10448262) on Sunday, 18th July 2010
Whirlwind: rate of production was too slow, together with problems with the engine, meant there weren't enough aircraft to equipe a squadron in time for any action in BoB.
Gladiators: A Flight of these were established to defend Plymouth - based at Roborough - the strip was too small for monoplanes.
Gruman Martlet: No 804 squadron FAA was based at Hatson initially with Sea Gladiators, but then in September '40 began to receive the US aircraft - but didn't see any action till Christmas. How different it would have been if the B.P.C. had ordered it when the French did, rather than take-over their order!?Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 12
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Sunday, 18th July 2010
To true. The Gruman packed a bigger punch (50 cal to the Spit/Hurri .303) The plane could take more punishment, and would have given the US first hand reports on how it handled in action. I liked the Whirlwind, it looked more modern than many Second World War aircraft. It suffered from many none Merlin fitted aircraft with trouble with the engines.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 13
Posted by JB on a slippery slope to the thin end ofdabiscuit (U13805036) on Sunday, 18th July 2010
Prog on the tv the other night said the Germans repeatedly bombed RNAS Worthy Down because they were certain the Fulmars were Hurricanes.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 14
Posted by Herewordless (U14549396) on Sunday, 18th July 2010
What about;-
Bristol Blenheim
As a day fighter the Blenheim IF was a failure, proving to be fairly easy meat for single-engine interceptors, and casualties were high. Like the Defiant, it served as a useful night fighter where its roomy fuselage and comparatively high loiter capability could be utilised to the full in this role.
Gloster Gladiator
The Gladiator will always be associated with the "fight against odds" which characterised RAF operations in Greece, North and East Africa, and the Mediterranean during the first two years of the war. Only No. 247 Squadron, RAF, and No. 804 Squadron, Fleet Air Arm, operated the type over the British Isles during the Battle of Britain.
Bristol Beaufighter
First flown on July 17 1939, the Beaufighter eventually equipped 52 RAF squadrons, giving outstanding service during World War II, in particular as a night-fighter and torpedo-bomber (where the aircraft were affectionally known as 'Torbeaus').
Entry into Fighter Command service came during August 1940 with the Fighter Interception Unit at Tangmere. The following month, five squadrons received the Mark 1F equipped with Mark IV Air Intercept radar for night-fighter duties although the type's first kill wasn't until November of that year. The Beaufighter continued as a night-fighter until 1943, and the last aircraft (a TT10) was not retired from RAF service until 1960, nearly 21 years after the type's first flight.Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 15
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Wednesday, 21st July 2010
I think the Gladiators at Roborough were actually Falmouth defence, working from a satellite field with even shorter runways. Probably some of the FAAs Skuas would have been employed from some of the Scottish bases if required.
Luftflotte 5 took a lot of hammer when they tried to get involved, as they were only escorted by Me110s, the Bf109s couldn't make the trip across the North Sea, but one of the main uses made of 13 Group, and the northern part of 12 Group too, AIUI, was to rest the pilots of the squadrons most heavily engaged, so units were rotated in & out of the south-east.Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 16
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Wednesday, 21st July 2010
I think that some Ansons may have been involved but that was 1939 rather than the BoB....
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 17
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Thursday, 22nd July 2010
Grumpy the Whirlwind is one of my favourite aircraft, and it did OK considering it was never upgraded - but how good would it have been with twin Merlins, and what would have the RAF gained?
All I can imagine is it would have been faster, and had more reliable engines. It already packed a big punch, so it could have been an awesome ground attack aircraft and fighter bomber. Apparently the Squardron that did have them - loved them and they had to be prized out of them!Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
-
Message 18
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 22nd July 2010
The Whirlwind did stirling service as a fighter bomber, and as you say if fitted with Merlins. I did read though that compared to other planes, changing its undercart was a nightmare and could take all day. Makes you also wonder why it took so long for the bubble canopy used on the Whirlwind to catch on.
Link to this forum: What other allied planes fought in the Battle of Britain
About this Board
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or Β to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ iD
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ navigation
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ links
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Β© 2014 The Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.