Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Anymore?
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Message 1.Β
Posted by youngjerry (U7266788) on Friday, 18th June 2010
Are there anymore 'secret files' on the depths of King Edward's apparent admiration for Hitler and the Nazis?
Or has all now been revealed that there is to reveal?
Is it worth Historians pursuing this subject further?
What would they hope to establish? -
Message 2
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Friday, 18th June 2010
I don't think anything can be uncovered now which would add or detract from the general assessment of the Duke of Windsor as a Nazi sympathiser. Nor do I think, after the FBI papers which constitute the latest flurry of media interest in these events, that there is much by way of official government or government agency information which will be released other than that which already has.
Of course there are still quantities of private papers out there - personal letters and so forth - which could indeed be published in the future, and they might well throw some light on his personality and motives. At the moment there is a consensus opinion that the man was naive (and a more privately expressed opinion that he was of very low intelligence). Some better informed personal insights might modify that consensus somewhat.
But I wouldn't be too surprised if it didn't. -
Message 3
Posted by youngjerry (U7266788) on Saturday, 19th June 2010
Hi Nordman.
Thanks. I have always respected your replies and opinions on this messageboard.
May I ask you what you think might/could have happened if Edward had remained King and done a deal (along with the government) with Hitler to avoid war? (And an awful lot of deaths?) -
Message 4
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Friday, 25th June 2010
youngjerry,
Nordman has it about right as far as I can judge. Many years ago I wrote a programme for the radio concerning the abdication(with appropriate research)and my belief is that Edward really did not want to be King. He knew full well that there was nothing in the Constitution that absolutely forbade a morganatic marriage; the only stipulation was that the wife would not receive due recognition as a 'queen of the realm' and any issue of that marriage would not therefore accede to the throne. This was explained to him by several advisers including the Archbishop of the time. But - as any issue from Edward and Mrs. Simpson was highly unlikely anyway, this was academic. Edward chose to insist that she take her 'place' alongside him despite the plethora of advice and ignoring the fact that the British authorities would have most likely eventually grudgingly accepted her as a consort of sorts and who knows, perhaps eventually accompanying him on Royal duties, etcetera.
His insistence led those in know to the conclusion that he was not interested in the trappings of royalty, only the pleasure and was seeking a way out of his responsibilities.
The consensus of opinion of the people, including some that I managed to interview, was that he was weak, vacillating individual who was a great disappointment.
There were other rumours concerning certain aspects of his emotional life which I will not mention for fear of incurring the wrath of the Andrew but suffice it to say that he had a penchant for married women(a not uncommon phenomenon in Royal circles; nor was the the comfy adoption of a mistress or two while in office completely out of the question either)especially those that, in the vernacular of the times, 'could do a turn' for the really desperate. His other hobbies, smoking, drinking and partying were well within the remit of the Regal Office so should not have proved entirely impossible for him to rise to the occasion.
His admiration for Hitler is well known and he isn't alone in that either, but as far as his attempting any leading role with the express support of the Nazis or otherwise, I think he counted himself out as an also ran.
However, even after abdication he had some muddled notion that he might continue to serve his country but he was shuffled off to other climes with I think a sigh of relief from the administration. Edward ... incapable, unwilling and unwanted.
Regards,
Spruggles. -
Message 5
Posted by rhmnney (U14528380) on Friday, 25th June 2010
I was a child in Britain at the time, may people felt he was not very comfortable during the Depression, and he seemed more concerned with the working class. If Hitler's speeches had been translated into English, many British people may have understood Hitler's feelings for Germany. My father was a Machine-Gunner in the British Army during the Great War, and later as part of the occupation force. He got to know the German people, and greatly admired them, and all the time during WW2. he never spoke bad of the German people or Armed Forces, granted his views were tempered by his personal experience. He was very well informed and would examine each side to a question or idea.
Even if Edward did quit the royalty perhaps he knew that he would be well cared for. If he were totally honest he could have stayed the country as a commoner and earned his own living, to me just a common Sponger.
I well remember the popular ditty at the time, "Look who's coming down the street Mrs Wilson aint she sweet, she was married twice before now she's knocking at Edward's door"< -
Message 6
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 25th June 2010
There will be papers hidden somewhere. All Governments keep secrets that they consider not in the National Interest. Aren't some of the Rippers papers still locked away.
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Message 7
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Saturday, 26th June 2010
GrumpyFred,
Which Ripper? -
Message 8
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Saturday, 26th June 2010
rhmnney,
Hitler's speeches were translated as was his seminal work, 'Mien Kampf'(my own copy dates at 1939)and he had many sympathisers within the West(as did Stalin).
It's possible that Edward may have applied for the post of Reich Puppet Monarch of the British Protectorate had we have reached that pretty pass - but I doubt if he would have been able to stomach the full implications of the subsequent Nazi domination.
I think that there was a general respect between the British/German armed forces, certainly widespread at the beginning.
I don't think he wanted to quit the Royalty, just the crown. As you rightly say, there was no fear on his part of not being looked after. He could have claimed the throne if he really wanted to - and kept Mrs. Simpson in the attic, as it were, but he appeared to want to make an 'honest' woman of her, albeit after some period of what Alan Bennett once described as 'Wild oats - late sowing.'
But what were his real motives? I think we have to remember that there is a world of difference between public and private persona. -
Message 9
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Saturday, 26th June 2010
S. Some of the Jack the Ripper papers that were due to be released after 100 years. This has been extended.
GF -
Message 10
Posted by rhmnney (U14528380) on Sunday, 27th June 2010
Spruggles, thanks a very interesting post. In the US where nothing seems secret watching a history program with Hitler giving one of his speeches he railed of the Class System in Germany and everyone starting on an equal footing, that would have gone well amongst the Working Class in Britain, plus no profit could be made without a product, the cause of this and the Great Depression, both were not caused by manufacturing, mining, shipping etc businesses or labor. He did give the German people hope, I was born in 1926 in a S. Wales coal mining valley and still have a very vivid recollection of those times. If watching a TV show where the speaker is speaking in a foreign language and the speech is captioned in English, one has to trust the honesty of the translation and I well understand in English where a sentence can be spoken in such a way to mean a quite different outcome. A common one is, "You can't use too much water", one person understanding to use as much water as you can, another limit the amount of water. In today's world another, where a Doctor tells a patient to drink as much water as the patient can or just say,"Stay well hydrated", the patient goes off drinks a high volume of water causing their blood sodium to drop to a dangerous level, Also on American TV I saw de Gaulle give a speech dressed in full Army Uniform where he gravely announces that, "It was French Forces that Liberated France during WW2," that would cause healthy laughter to all who remember WW2 One has to trust what is read, spoken, or seen, which means never trust what you read, hear, or even see.
During the N. Africa Campaign a British documentary stated that it was a Gentleman's War between the British and German Armies, a British Officer said that after every Battle he was in there, the most seriously wounded were attended to first wether they were British or German. Hitler did go off the Rocks but comparing my childhood in Britain to a German's of my age at least he gave the German people hope thus strength.
War seems to create more problems, the civilized world should seek to find a better way. -
Message 11
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Monday, 28th June 2010
GrumpyFred,
Was there any reason given for the extension? I haven't seen anything in the press recently about it. -
Message 12
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Monday, 28th June 2010
S, I can't remember the reason, but it was a few years ago. I remember it did lead to speculation that indeed one of the Royals, or somebody close to them was involved.
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Message 13
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Monday, 28th June 2010
rhmnney,
Ah, the soldiers in the Rhonda Valley conjures up many images to me too. Not easily forgotten.
Hitler may well have given hope to some but it has to be remembered that the expansion of the German economy was achieved by ruthless suppression of minorities and much forced labour.
The adoption of eugenics(polite word for compulsory sterilization)of those judged to be inferior, enforced euthanasia(polite word for murder)for those judged as sub-normal and of course all the crimes committed against the racially impure.
Propaganda of the nineteen thirties only showed the positives of course. The High and Mighty sitting down enjoying the same soup as the peasant or the distribution of bread for the farmers; all examples for the acceptance of the wise and not so wise.
Propaganda, now there's a subject worthy of much study. Who said 'in order to deceive we must first deceive our self'?
Compare your childhood immediately post war with that of the children of ravaged Europe. I think that this will provide you with another vantage point.
Regards,
Spruggles. -
Message 14
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Monday, 28th June 2010
Grumps,
Duke of Clarence, old 'Collar and Cuffs' has reared his head again? -
Message 15
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Monday, 28th June 2010
It do make you wonder. LOL But everytime the Government does something like this, the nutters have a field day. No doubt the Princess of Wales papers will be sealed until Hell freezes over.
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Message 16
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Quite right. Sometimes I wonder if we will ever find out that she was killed in a tragic accident.
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