Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
The Beeb has done it again
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Sunday, 9th May 2010
On todays news the covered the VE parade through Red Square and trotted out the Russia lost 25 million in the war against Germany. Even thow it has been known for years that although they did lose a lot more than the UK and US, a lot of their dead were killed on the orders of Uncle Joe. Stalin took the numbers of those he had murdered before the war started, then the numbers he had killed after including those who surrendered, and those who changed sides after becoming pows and added all these to the numbers killed by the Germans. You would think by now the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ could get it right.
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Message 2
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Sunday, 9th May 2010
'On todays news the covered the VE parade through Red Square and trotted out the Russia lost 25 million in the war against Germany. '
- and now the 'winners'needed in visas to visit Germany...i.e. those who 'would be' lost the war.It is a very hard task for common Russians and Ukrainians to gain a visa in Germany...
but not for Putin and Medvedev. -
Message 3
Posted by ambi (U13776277) on Sunday, 9th May 2010
Apart from the fact that the losses were incurred by the Soviet Union and its constituent republics rather than Russia alone, most historians (many no admirers of Stalin) estimate that the USSR lost at least 20 million. No serious historian would include the dead of the great pre-war terrors, and would only include the verifiable deaths of POWs held by the Germans.
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Message 4
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 5
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Sunday, 9th May 2010
I am not denying the fact that the USSR carried the weight of the war against Germany (After 1941) But I object to the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ stating that they won the war in Europe. They didn't Britain and its allies fought them from 1939 until Germany made the mistake of invading the USSR. It is a fact that the 25 million figure was trotted out just after Stalin finished murdering those that had resisted and helped the Germans. These were added to those he had killed during the purge. Then added to the war dead.
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Message 6
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Monday, 10th May 2010
Now putins ( during the 'celebration and parades' ) don't like to mention the one very important detail.
After the split of Poland between friends....
from Nov. 1939 to the March 1940 Stalin's Empire fought against Finland where Finns put in action ,in the first time, their 'secret weapon' the Molotov's cocktail and objectively was an alley of Hitler.
I have no see a logical reason why Churchill did what he did in June 1941? I can see only his own Emotions.
But it was a real trap for the Free World. Instead to support the forces of resistance in occupied by Germans parts of the ussr ( the Ukraine, the Baltic countries ) Allies helped Stalin ( ???? ). The UPAers held onto their control the biggest part of Ukraine up to the spring of 1944 . So did the Green Brothers in the Baltic countries.
Within a year or two we would have won the war without any Stalin's troops I bet on our own ...and even without the Western aid ....and 'visas' ....
'They didn't Britain and its allies fought them from 1939 until Germany made the mistake of invading the USSR. '- the biggest part of the German Fleet ....+ the biggest part of the fighters&bombers of Goering was destroyed by the Britain in Europe. -
Message 7
Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Monday, 10th May 2010
What figure would you like them to use?
You don't like the figure the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ used and yet you don't supply one of your own, the only problem I have is with the word 'lost' do they just mean 'dead' or do they mean 'dead, wounded & missing'.
I've just had a quick glance through 3 of my Easten Front books and the figures for Soviet military and civilian deaths between 1941 and 1945 vary from 19-35 million, and a quick search of 4 websites details the losses as anywhere between 18-28 million. So that's 7 differant sources with a differance of 16 million between the lowest and the highest figures, so which figure should the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ have used?
The Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is also right to say that the war was won/lost on the Eastern Front, whilst the Western Allies contributed to the overall victory, especially with Lend-lease to the Soviets, the truth is the German army was bled white on the Eastern Front. -
Message 8
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Monday, 10th May 2010
Steeler, the figures were about 10 million murdered by Stalin and added to the war dead. Again, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ did not say that. They said the the USSR won the war in Europe. I agree they won the eastern war and pulled troops away from the west, but the same can be said about the western war. By (At first) the British holding down troops in France, be it only their Airforce and A A crews. Then with the arrival of the US and Overlord more and more ground troops who could have been fighting on the Russian front.
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Message 9
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 10
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Tuesday, 11th May 2010
so which figure should the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ have used?'- they should simply say the truth. The exact figures are unknown because none of hypocritical gas-dealers and KGBers behind the Kremlin's walls is interested to know it. And you all know why.
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Message 11
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Wednesday, 12th May 2010
Of all the things to get upset about, the comment that the Soviets won the war is not one of them.
At other times, people might say Britain won the war. Or the US.
They all did. The statements carry no sense of exclusivity. -
Message 12
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Wednesday, 12th May 2010
Who won what still remains for me a big question ...but now.. apparently the Germans being the winners.
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