Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Che Guevara
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Β
Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Tuesday, 4th May 2010
Did Che and his band have any hope of creating
real change in South America?
Wonder why he left Cuba just as the revolution started the new society and was he a man to be admired or is his folkhero status way overblown?
He certainly is still the man in Cuba today. -
Message 2
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Tuesday, 4th May 2010
The status of folk-hero requires the support of local population ( the Folk ).
Che died because he failed to gain the support among locals out of Cuba...He was only a leader of the pro- communist gang. -
Message 3
Posted by baz (U14258304) on Tuesday, 4th May 2010
He certainly is still the man in Cuba today.Β
Hardly a recommendation. You would be risking your and your family's safety if you criticised him in Cuba. His personality cult is much the same as all those in the communist world, past and present: a virtual state relgion. -
Message 4
Posted by wollemi (U2318584) on Tuesday, 4th May 2010
Is it true Klaus Barbie was instrumental in his capture and death?
-
Message 5
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Wednesday, 5th May 2010
Let's just say he was more useful to Castro as a martyr and icon than as a real, living rival.
-
Message 6
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Thursday, 6th May 2010
Well, no priest likes having a live saint in his parish.
-
Message 7
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Tuesday, 18th May 2010
Che was a rich kid who back in the 40s had the money to spend on motorbike tourism all over the continent when even today it is not the cheapest of things to do (only the fuel will cost you several 100s of euros). He took it to the revolutiokn but that is all he knew about. He knew nothing of politics.
PS: when I hear about idealised cases full of strawberries, I keep a smaller strawberry basket. -
Message 8
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Friday, 28th May 2010
I wouldn't say it was motorbike tourism all over the continent. The did a lot of walking as the Norton 500 was a little past its best by then... Not quite carried out in the Charlie McEwan and Gregor McBoring style.....
-
Message 9
Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Tuesday, 20th July 2010
Upon further research
Che and Fidel did not leave on nasty terms more like Che was not a Cuban and was itching to promote his anti US governments elsewhere in Latin America.
He was probably basically a decent person certainly very talented but his penchant for armed revolution turned off even the most devout commies in other countries.
The man was a paradox and no family man which is probably the most important we can attain to.... -
Message 10
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Tuesday, 20th July 2010
He was probably basically a decent personΒ
Really?
A prolific diarist, Guevara nevertheless wrote vividly of his role as an executioner. In one passage he described the execution of Eutimio Guerra, a peasant and army guide.
βI fired a .32calibre bullet into the right hemisphere of his brain which came out through his left temple,β was Guevaraβs clinical description of the killing. βHe moaned for a few moments, then died.β
This was the first of many βtraitorsβ to be subjected to what Guevara called βacts of justiceβ.
There was seldom any trial. βI carried out a very summary inquiry and then the peasant Aristidio was executed,β he wrote about another killing. βIt is not possible to tolerate even the suspicion of treason.βΒ
He didn't like black people very much either:
the black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead.Β -
Message 11
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Tuesday, 20th July 2010
Neither did Abe Lincoln or TH Huxley, but they helped move the world on a bit.
-
Message 12
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Tuesday, 20th July 2010
Guevara tried to move it in the opposite direction...backwards to the age of barbarism.
-
Message 13
Posted by cmedog47 (U3614178) on Tuesday, 20th July 2010
"He was probably basically a decent person"
Well, I guess we are all entitled to our own personal definition of "decent". The anecdote that followed the above comment is just one of many descriptions of Che as a sociopath who was genuinely enthusiastic about killing. He presided over the tribunals that executed masses of Castro's opponents. Not merely colding handing out sentences as a matter of cold-hearted "revolutionary justice", but eagerly participating in the executions personally whenever his other duties allowed, liking the pistol for it's intimacy. He had a hole cut in the wall of his office so he would have an unobstructed continual view of the executions.
Just the kind of criminal useful to a fellow murderer like Castro at first but one not likely to have his blood lust satiated when the killing is done. It has long been said that Castro feared him and got him out of the country and also informed the CIA of his whereabouts shortly before he was captured and killed--a killing that certainly left the world a better place.
The Che T-shirts translate into "You are looking at a morally incompetent imbecile" in every language. -
Message 14
Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Wednesday, 21st July 2010
Now I know what taking your words out of context means.....
Of course he was decent, went down the wrong path in a way but his goal in life was to relieve poverty and how do you think the Cuban revolution succeded, the people rose up against oppression.
Their society was corrupt and the USA was the backer.
The hole in the wall story as you present it is baloney.
Now lets see G Bush invades Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction----oh wait there are none but thousands of people are killed.
How many did Castro's crew execute, 58 I believe, and they are the villans!!!
Wake up,,, -
Message 15
Posted by cmedog47 (U3614178) on Wednesday, 21st July 2010
I have known several of those who fled Castro and his murderous kleptocracy and one who spent years in one of his prisons. Some of those who fled were politically active trying to bring down Baptista and his corrupt regieme. So why did they flee Castro while they had stayed to work against Baptista? It was because they feared him even more and found him a far crueler and more capricious ruler who is not satisfied merely to remain in power but must crush ALL those who might think and act independently of his will. It was why Castro had to see Che dead.
It is obvious that you will think what you will, even imagining that you somehow know the man's heart apart from the incontestable testimony of his actions. The poorest of little Havana in Miami are better off than the average person in Cuba. Cuba was the richest nation in Latin America with one of the best standards of living among the poor and middle class before Castro got his hands on it.
Only execute 58! That is ridiculous! But sociopaths will always find those who entranced by the "men of action" and their brutality who will delude themselves about the nature of the creature they fall in love with.
Believe what you will, I choose to let the facts shape mine. -
Message 16
Posted by ambi (U13776277) on Thursday, 22nd July 2010
Just to keep on the 'beliefs shaped by facts' theme, would you say that the numbers of those killed and tortured by US backed regimes in South and Central America run into the tens or hundreds of thousands? I suspect the latter.
Ideological domino games are never pleasant, and neither were Che or his opponents. -
Message 17
Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Wednesday, 28th July 2010
Sorry Cmedog
I screwed up on the 56 executed,my source was way off, but Batista's crew weren't any better so let's say they were all in a vicious free for all
O>K> IAN -
Message 18
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
-
Message 19
Posted by cmedog47 (U3614178) on Wednesday, 4th August 2010
But no one is going about glorifying Baptista by adorning their body with his face. The point isn't which pschopathic killer is worse, but to recognize a psychopathic killer and not make a saint of him and degrade oneself in doing so.
-
Message 20
Posted by NoNameNoFace (U1652129) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
Che was a true revolutionary, he had hoped do what he done in Cuba in Boliva but failed because the Bolivan guerillas didnt want to fight as much as the Cubans.
He set out to show captiliasm for its corrupt ways and bring them American backed regimes to their knees. If he had of had the backing and support he had in Cuba who knows.
But he is rightly remembered as a legend in Cuba for what he done for their people. He is also an inspiration for any other freedom fighters across the world. -
Message 21
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
Despite the fact he ran death squads?
About this Board
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or Β to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ iD
ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ navigation
ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ links
ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Β© 2014 The ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.