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February 1915, Marne.

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by germinator (U13411914) on Monday, 26th April 2010

  I have been researching my wife's great uncle on-line, he was in the French 248th Infantry Regiment, and was killed by enemy fire at Souain (Marne) on 20th February 1915, according to 'mΓ©moire des hommes'. I can find no reference to his remains, so I think they must be in an unmarked grave or ossuary there. Can anyone provide more information, or direct me? Thank you.

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Monday, 26th April 2010

  Hi,
  
  Perhaps the following maybe of interest to you?
  
  Perhaps the best example of the French fighting spirit was the 'Miracle of the Marne', when the Germans were stopped within only a day's march of Paris itself. In the hilly countryside along the Ourcq battle-line, which stretched from Nanteuil-le-Haudouin (ten miles from the forest of Compeigne) to Meaux (only twenty miles from the north-eastern Paris fortresses) some of the most important fighting took place. The French, supported by light field artillery (the redoubtable 75mm gun) had initially pushed the Germans back but, on the 6th September, they met with stiff resistance. Again and again, the French attacked, whilst German heavy artillery shelled them to smithereens. The tenacity and fury of the French assaults can be shown by just one Zouave battalion that had entered the battle on the 6th September a thousand strong. When it was pulled out of the attack two days later, a staggering 800 men of the battalion were casualties. On the same day, General Foch's IX Army was severely mauled, leading to his legendary message to Joffre that "My centre is giving ground; my right retiring; situation excellent; I am attacking."
  
  Whether the message was genuine or not, it nevertheless captured the spirit of the French Army. The Chateau of Mondement, four miles east of Sezanne, also became known as one of the fiercest battles of First Marne. The old chateau was originally held by the French 32nd Regiment and the 231st Territorial Regiment but, during the fighting, possession swung back and forth between them and Germans four times before it was finally recaptured. Mondement subsequently became known as the 'Hougomont of the Marne'. Other later engagements were equally courageous; such as the battle for Lens, a small mining town on the River Deule, ten miles from Arras and directly on the path of the German thrust towards Calais. Here the French and Germans fought a very bloody engagement, in barricaded streets and houses, fighting amongst the mineheads and iron and steel works for possession of the town.
  The following are highly entertaining and informative works on the early-war French Army:
  
  de la Gorce, P.M. - The French Army (London 1963)
  
  Ferro, M. - The Great War 1914-1918 (London, 1987)
  
  Marshal-Cornwall, General Sir J. - Foch as Military Commander (London 1972)
  
  Mollo, A. - Army Uniforms of World War 1, (Blandford, 1977)
  
  Summer, I. - The French Army, 1914-1918, No. 286 (Osprey 1995)
  
  
  Regards
  Spike
  
  

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• Message 3

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  Posted by germinator (U13411914) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  Thank you Spike, for that interesting information. I will see which books are available at our local library.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  One point - the battle described above was 1914.
  By Feb 1915, when this man was killed, the line would probably have settled down into trench warfare.

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  Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010

  Germinator,
  
  There is a memorial and ossuary at Navarin Farm situated close to Souain.
  
  
  Some more photos of the memorial:
  
  
  as you can see from the little map, Navarin Farm lies just north of Souain along the D977.
  
  The ossuary contains the remains of 10,000 unidentified soldiers from the surrounding vicinity, it is possible that your soldier could be amongst them.
  
  There is a French site I looked at, memorial-genweb.org, and there is a partial list of 206 soldiers of the 248th regiment killed in action [none of them are recorded as being killed on 20/2/15].If I've figured the information on this site correctly, the identified dead are buried at Saint Hilaire-le-Grand.
  
  Souain itself featured in two events during 1915. The first,on the 17th March, was the execution of 4 corporals of the 336th Regiment [the 336th,like the 248th,was one of the regiments which made up the 60th Infantry Division]for the encouragement of the others.[probably the real incident behind Kubrick's film "Paths of Glory"].The second on the 9th December, was the first French Army tank trials, which were carried out over the old battlefield.
  
  I hope this of some help.
  
  Trike.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Thursday, 29th April 2010

  There is another ossuary at Saouin-Suippe nearby.
  
  
  Between Auberive and Minaucourt[on either side of the Suippe military area] there are 26 cemeteries/ossuaries containing the remains of about 130,000 men.
  

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• Message 7

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  Posted by LairigGhru (U14051689) on Sunday, 2nd May 2010

  What attitude is taken towards identity discs when bones come to light? Is a determined effort to find one made? If not, I feel it is a little cavalier to throw away the unique chance of identifying the man.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by MB (U177470) on Sunday, 2nd May 2010

  I would have thought that any identity discs found are passed to the authorities but most bones found will not have any. The French Army does seem to have used the standard system of two tags, one to stay with the body and the other kept for recording.
  
  
  
  What records do the French have, is there any equivalent to the CWGC Debt of Honour? The CWGC website has this (with a link)
  
  French War Casualties The French Ministry of Defence website records all French casualties of the First World War and in the near future it will record certain Second World War casualties.
  
  
  
  Incidentally I went to a talk by one of the people involved in Fromelles, many British records were lost or destroyed but the Germans have a very comprehensive archive including many photographs - they encouraged their soldiers to carry and use cameras unlike the British who banned them.
  
  MB
  

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