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Wars and Conflicts  permalink

Northern Ireland

• Message 1. 

  Posted by Docsburke (U14222536) on Wednesday, 18th November 2009

  
  
  My Name is Stephen Burke, aged 60 from 1970 to 1990 I served in the Army (Infantry), being an instructor in the Army
  (I spent 11 years training new recruits) I really feel when I hear the loss of are comrades boys/girls in Afghanistan/Iraqi.
  
  The war in Afghanistan gets coverage everyday on television, papers, Radio. which is great, From 1970 to 1990 I did 7 tours of northern Ireland during that period I lost some great mates out there.
  
  And from 1969 to 2007 we lost (Killed) 763 soldiers 6.000 injured in the conflict, "So were has it all gone wrong" many ex service men have commented that we got no mention on Remembrance day (2009) but during the conflict we did not get a garden of Remembrance in Westminster hardly any air cover when a soldier died or injured. and never of the equipment issued to us we had no body armor
  very few helicopters. People need to now.
  
  Sorry to moan but god bless are lads and lasses out there "May God be with Them"
  
  Regards
  
  Steve Burke

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Wednesday, 18th November 2009

  hi doc
  
  i am with you there
  
  the current "Our boys" campaign seems to be a political exercise - not that i dont care about it - not that i dont feel sick whenever a british soldier is killed in that god forsaken hole
  
  the NI conflict used to be dealt with with the "Last night another British soldier" comment
  
  the 2 conflicts are identical - british troops killed for no apparent reason
  
  but where was the huge press coverage for the lads in NI - a mate of mine - a para - had his foot blown off with a nail bomb and his mate was killed, and it wasnt even in the paper !!i wish i could fell that the current press hysteria wasnt because a cetain newspaper hadnt changed its allegiance and they really cared about "Our boys"
  
  your war - just as savage was the stuff of rujdard kipling "Tommy aitken"
  
  i salut you for your efforts though
  
  st

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by RedSperanza (U2182452) on Thursday, 19th November 2009

  Hello Stephen,
  
  Did your experiences in NI cause you to form any opinions about the conflict there?

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 20th November 2009

  did u actually care ??
  
  was it not the fact that u were in the british army and posted to wherever they wanted you to go
  
  it didnt actually matter what u thought
  
  as is now in afghanistan
  
  st
  
  

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 20th November 2009

  There's no real comparison between Northern Ireland and Afghanistan. The reason being that Northern Ireland was and is a part of the UK sending MPs to the Westminster parliament. Afghanistan is a foreign country.

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Frank Parker (U7843825) on Friday, 20th November 2009

  Afghanistan is a foreign country.  That's undeniable Vizzer. But it doesn't alter the fact that young men died fighting in NI and did not get the same press coverage as those dying today in Afghanistan. The OP asks "why should this be so?" Surely fighting and dying within our homeland should deserve greater attention than our participation in a multinational effort in a foreign land.
  

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Saturday, 21st November 2009

  agreed there plot
  the press in those days seemed almost embarassed in their coverage
  
  i dont agree the 2 are different tho
  
  in both places the indigenous population welcomed us at first - but in the end just wanted us out
  
  in both places young lads died for something they didnt really believe in or care about
  
  in both places the only way to affect closure seems to be to allow both sides to sort it out themselves - whatever the sacrifices british troops make
  
  and in both places when we have left - in time the end result will probably be a result we didnt fight for
  
  ie a catholic Ulster and a Taliban afghanistan
  
  st

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Saturday, 21st November 2009

  the press in those days seemed almost embarassed in their coverage 
  
  Understandably embarrassed.
  
  The UK (which only 25 years earlier have fought and won a world war in Europe, Africa, Asia and the Pacific) was now having to fight a campaign within its own borders and against it own subjects.
  
  
  in both places the indigenous population welcomed us at first - but in the end just wanted us out 
  
  It's difficult to know who the 'us' are who are being referred to here. If it refers to the UK army then they were just as indigenous to the UK as anyone else in Northern Ireland.
  
  
  and in both places when we have left - in time the end result will probably be a result we didnt fight for
  
  ie a catholic Ulster 
  
  Again - it's not clear who the 'we' are who are being referred to here but are you saying that the UK army in Northern Ireland during the troubles was fighting against the catholic population of Ulster?

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by pedrokelly (U1360661) on Tuesday, 24th November 2009

  and in both places when we have left - in time the end result will probably be a result we didnt fight for
  
  ie a catholic Ulster and a Taliban afghanistan  
  
  Sorry, but why would the British Government have not wanted a 'Catholic Ulster'? In what way would a 'Catholic Ulster' have been in anyway comparable with a Taliban Afghanistan?
  

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Wednesday, 25th November 2009

  the "Us" being referred to is mainland GB
  
  the "US" are not indigenious Irish nor will we ever be !!
  
  Ireland is not part of the Mainland UK - nor will it ever be - it is Ireland - a separate island where as a whole -the indigeneous (Catholic) population does not want to be associated with us - and who can blame them
  
  the reason we are there is because they have a protestant population inserted there by the british ruling class to impose their will on a foreign land -
  
  who were the landowners - who had the best jobs - who were not allowed to take postions in government ??
  
  have a look at the incident that started the whole civil rights thing off
  
  the British government did not want a Catholic Ulster as much as it didnt want a Protestant Ulster - it wanted a place where democracy ruled - it was never going to happen
  
  the higher Catholic birthrate ensures that in 10, 20 years a vote on Ulster will mean seccession - trust me here lol
  
  a Taliban Afghanistan is similar because we are trying to impose our will on the afghan people to accept a corrupt government - acceptable to the USA - on a people who dont want us
  
  the TALIBAN whether we like it or not are the people who destroyed the soviet army - and we didnt care about their morals or the afghan peoples suffering until 9/11
  
  when we leave - the puppet government will fall - and the Talban - the real fighters - will take power again
  
  bit like Northern irelands 25 years of bloodshed i think
  
  or am i wrong - what else will happen ??
  
  st
  

  Link to this forum: Northern Ireland

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Thursday, 26th November 2009

  the "Us" being referred to is mainland GB 
  
  'Mainland GB' didn't go to Northern Ireland. The UK army (which had always been in Northern Ireland - just as much as it had always been in any other part of the UK) simply bolstered its numbers in the province during the troubles. The UK army, before, during and since the troubles has also always included recruits from Northern Ireland.
  
  
  the "US" are not indigenious Irish nor will we ever be !! 
  
  This is difficult to interpret as a sentence. If it means that 'mainland GB' will never be 'indigenous Irish' then it might make a sort of a sense. Nevertheless it is an odd statement.
  
  
  Ireland is not part of the Mainland UK 
  
  I'm not sure that anyone has said it is for obvious geographical reasons. The clue is in the word 'Mainland'.
  
  
  the indigeneous (Catholic) population 
  
  There are very large numbers of (Catholic) Poles and Lithuanians etc currently living in Ireland, settling down and having children. Are they 'indigenous'.
  
  There are also (much smaller) numbers of Irish-speaking Protestants in parts of Donegal etc. Are they non-indigenous?
  
  
  the reason we are there is because they have a protestant population inserted there by the british ruling class to impose their will on a foreign land 
  
  A rather pat-a-cake interpretation of Irish history. You could just as well say that the protestant population was inserted into North America etc by the British ruling class to impose their will on a foreign people. A bit too simplistic perhaps.
  
  
  who were the landowners - who had the best jobs - who were not allowed to take postions in government ?? 
  
  Was the situation any different in Scotland and England?
  
  
  the British government did not want a Catholic Ulster as much as it didnt want a Protestant Ulster - it wanted a place where democracy ruled - it was never going to happen 
  
  Agreed. The partition of Ireland (and the partition of Ulster) in 1922, and the setting up of a UK land border based on sectarian demographics was only ever going to be unsatisfactory. It is a fundamental flaw in the UK as a state and is a festering sore which hasn't gone away.
  
  
  the higher Catholic birthrate ensures that in 10, 20 years a vote on Ulster will mean seccession - trust me here lol 
  
  Actually that's a bit of a 1960s myth. The birthrate among catholics in Northern Ireland is not significantly higher than that among protestants. Both sections of the population practice contraception. What has happened, however, over the last 30 years or so, is that young protestants (i.e. protestants of childbearing age) are much more likely to leave Northern Ireland than catholics. This has led to an ageing of the protestant population and a consequent demographic shift.
  
  
  a Taliban Afghanistan is similar because we are trying to impose our will on the afghan people to accept a corrupt government - acceptable to the USA - on a people who dont want us 
  
  You need to speak for yourself here. I'm not trying to impose my will on any Afghan. In fact I have opposed all of Blair's illegal wars of aggression. Neither do I 'blame the Americans' for what Blair did. The UK has to take responsiblity for its own actions.

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