Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Davids who triumphed over Goliaths
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 9th October 2009
In the history of war who are the Davids who have triumphed over the Goliaths?
This was a question posed on Radio 4's 'Today' program:
(about 2:55:45 in)
Saul David, Professor of War Studies at the University of Buckingham and Philip Sabin, Professor of Strategic Studies at King's College London, mentioned Leonidas, Robert the Bruce, Simon Bolivar, Vo Nguyen Giap, Hannibal, Frederick the Great, Vercingetorix and Julius Caesar.
Are they any other examples? -
Message 2
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Friday, 9th October 2009
I think Leonidas and Vercingetorix is stretching it a bit - Does being dead (however gloriously) count as a tiumph? Even Hannibal came to a sticky end.
O'Connor's attack in the Western Desert must get a mention. Attacked, defeated and captured an Italian force considerably larger than the one he started out with. -
Message 3
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Israel over the Arab states in 1948, 1967 & 1973.
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Message 4
Posted by Frank Parker (U7843825) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Rorke's Drift? 139 vs 4-5000; 11 VCs and several other medals earned.
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Message 5
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Friday, 9th October 2009
RAF Fighter Command v. the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain?
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Message 6
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Beleive it or not I'd have the battle Of Britain not as a battle of David vs Goliath, but say a 40/60 kind of conflict. Once it was over and through 41-42 Fighter Command suffered awful losses in stupid sweeps over France...for all the reasons the Luftwaffe was defeated in 1940 by day.
What about that naval action of escort carriers vs a very large Japanese fleet?? -
Message 7
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
The lone viking at Stamford bridge Until some sneeky Saxon shove a sword where swords don't belong.
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Message 8
Posted by -frederik- (U13721647) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
1302, july 11
Battle of the golden spurs
A flemish army of footsoldiers and a few knights triumph over a professional French army of knights.
Political significance: Flanders becomes a more or less independent state for some time.
Military significance: The news of this victory spread fast throughout Europe. it was the first time heavy cavalry was defeated by an inferior army of footsoldiers. No one thought that was possible.
The English learned the same lesson at bannockburn a few years later. -
Message 9
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
O'Connor's attack was carefully planned so that it wasn't a David v. Goliath battle.
Although the Italians had many more men and twice as many medium tanks (300 odd to 150) as Western desert Force, that was in the theatre as a whole.
In the forward area, the figures were closer to parity, and the Italians only had 60 M13s to 150 British, 50 of which were Mattilda II to which the Italians had no counter short of medium artillery over open sights.
O'Connor also had the advantage that his troops were overwhelmingly Regular soldiers who had been training together for years (4th Indian Division in particularly was the cream of the Indian Army) and 6th Australian which consisted of the best of Australia's Militia (although 7th Aus Div probably disagree). The bulk of the Italians were conscripts, and tied to the roads by their training (or lack of).
O'Connor was able to exploit his own mobility and Italian slowness to defeat the Itlaians in detail.
This is not to disparage the achievement of OP COMPASS, which was a masterpiece of leadership, staff work but it was not the David v. Goliath contest British propaganda portrayed at the time.
Has anyone mentioned the seige of Mirbat as a DvG example? -
Message 10
Posted by JB on a slippery slope to the thin end ofdabiscuit (U13805036) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
Lettow-Vorbeck in the 'ice cream war' East African campaign in WW1.
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Message 11
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
Mirbat was, by the same token, highly trained and well armed men against an inferior enemy, however superior in numbers. As was Rorke's drift. In both cases, it was a defensive 'win or die' battle, so motivation was not an issue.
I would see 'David & Goliath' as a case where some force, without superior training or weapons, chooses to take on a larger/better trained/better armed enemy, and wins, in spite of their inferiority, not because of their superiority. 'Backs to the wall' defensive actions, where no option exists, would not qualify, not would 'Colonial' actions against 'Native' armies, where firepower is the major deciding factor. -
Message 12
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Monday, 12th October 2009
"What about that naval action of escort carriers vs a very large Japanese fleet??"
The "Taffy's" in Leyte Gulf chose to atatck the Japanese and forced them away from the invasion fleet so yeah I'd say this counted.
How about the English Channel Run by Scharnhorst and Gnisenau [sp] and Prinz Eugen? As a "battle" they took on everything that the Allies could throw at them on those given days and "suceeded" that day - only to be sunk later but you can't fault them for having a go in the "gauntlet". -
Message 13
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Hello Vizzer,
I would suggest Michael Collins and the IRA against the BE in 1919 to 1922. -
Message 14
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Monday, 12th October 2009
The British threw very little at the fleet, even the guns at Dover didn't open fire. If anything, it was the other way round, a few Swordfish attacking a combined fleet and heavy air escort.
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Message 15
Posted by MattJ18 (U13798409) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Quite a narrow definition there giraffe, but here goes:
1. Alexander the Great's Macedonians against the might of the Persian Empire, both at Issus and Gaugamela, but particuarly Issus where he outnumbered, trapped and facing a relatively strong army (at Gaugamela it was big but no where near as good).
2. The Army of Northern Virginia is the American Civil War won a whole bunch of battles despite inferior numbers and equipment.
3. Napoleon's campaign in Northern Italy.
4. Wellington in Spain.
All of those though were led by very good commanders and had certain things going for them. -
Message 16
Posted by pc1973 (U13716600) on Monday, 12th October 2009
What about the 1812 Anglo American conflict. I think America had six frigates vs the most powerful Navy in the world.
I know they did not win the war but did manage to secure an honourable peace. -
Message 17
Posted by abrazier (U3915690) on Monday, 12th October 2009
"The "Taffy's" in Leyte Gulf chose to atatck the Japanese and forced them away from the invasion fleet so yeah I'd say this counted."
Hardly! The Japanese fleet caught the Taffies totally by surprise and it was fight back or die. No choice involved. -
Message 18
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Depends what you mean by an honorable peace - The USA started the war and did not achieve its principal war aim; the capture of Canadian territory.
I would agree the US Navy was outnumbered (even if those US frigates were pretty big as frigates go; bigger than their RN counterparts) and gave a very good account of themselves. But ultimately, the naval campaign went to the British, by weight of numbers.
I suppose you could argue that the Shannon v. Chesapeake fight was David versus Goliath, given that HMS Shannon was smaller than USS Chesapeake. But I'm not sure the difference was great enough to really qualify as as a David versus Goliath fight.
Israel in 1948, possibly, although arguably they were saved by the Ceasefire. Another one where propoaganda warps perception. Not 1967 and 1973; qualitative superiority and much larger forces than '48 evened things out.
The US Army in its various battles in Mexico in 1846? A dishonourable war, but the US forces were outnumbered in almost evry battle by forces as well equipped as themselves.
LW -
Message 19
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Yes, Matt, I stick by my 'narrow' definition, but I couldn't argue with any of your examples, which seem to qualify rather well. I would, however, also stick with O'Connor's campaign.
This was 2 modern European armies, albeit one more 'modern' than the other, and the outnumbered one choose to attack, and ended up capturing 10 times as many of the enemy as it started out with. Maybe as outnumbered as Alexander was at Gaugamela?
Military wisdom says you need 3:1 advantage to attack at all, never mind against an enemy dug in to prepared positions behind minefields. Doing it while heavily outnumbered takes a bit of planning, and a hell of a lot of nerve! -
Message 20
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 12th October 2009
giraffe
Still disagree about COMPASS. WDF had a strength of about 36,000 at the start, and until Beda Fomm was never overmatched by more than two to one; at Tobruk, it outnumbered the defenders. The vast number of prisoners (130,000 in the end) was linked to the desert terrain - there was nowhere to withdraw to, surrender was the only option (something that also affected the British when they were going the other way a few months later).
O'Connor's genius was to concentrate his limited force so that they had superiority at key points. The General organising the assault on Tobruk noted that his 96 guns on a front of 800 yards was only slightly less of a concentration than at Messines in 1917 (but at Messines, the front had been 6 miles long).
Still a great feat of arms, though.
Speaking of which, I presume Agincourt qualifies. Probably the outstanding English example of this category of battle?
LW -
Message 21
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Call me romantic (afterall it is right in the age) but the absolute David against Goliath has to be the Greek revolution of 1821. Long before the western powers realised they could no longer control things and had to recinsider the possibility of an independent Greek state (and thus try to maintain it as small and powerless as possible), the Greek rebels had to fight the Ottoman masses (Turkish standard army, Turkish-albanians, and a bit later Turkish-egyptian troops), all that while western powers even condidered enterring with their own armies to put down the revolution (before chaning stance 4 years later when things became "dangerously uncontrolled").
So in all that early period of the revolution we may find tons of battles of the type David and Goliath, one however is really exceptional. It comes in the campaign of Pasha Omer Vruonis who came down from Lamia with an army of nearly 10,000 mainly Turkish Albanians, among them 1000 cavalry as well as a number of battle and siege canons so as to blow up any fortified points of resistance. The first resistance point was set not far from the "usual suspect" place, Thermopylae (of course not as narrow as in the past), it was actually a bridge called Alamana defended by a monk and trainee-priest Athanasios Diakos along with 2 well known captains Panourgias & Diovouniotis. The total Greek force to hold the massive and well armed, well fed turkish army was a handfull of Greem men around 500 to 800! Unfortunately the 2 captains failed to keep their positions and Diakos who was holding the bridge was encircled alongside his last faithful and were all killed, himself caught last wounded. He was offered his life and a
good position in Omer's army, he refused saying and he was born a Romios (i.e. a Greek) and a Romios he would die...he was impalled alive (the standard Ottoman punishment).
Omer Vruonis and his army went down burning, raping and killing everything they could find in their passage - a favourite occupation of all Tukrish armies that tended to offer much more "bravado" against armless citizens (something that never changed and has stayed up to our days). Greeks were so fearfull that were getting their families out in the mountains, even warriors were discouraged thinking that "this is it, this is the end".... (end of part 1). -
Message 22
Posted by WarsawPact (U1831709) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Finland v Soviet Union in WW2.
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Message 23
Posted by MattJ18 (U13798409) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
"O'Connor's genius was to concentrate his limited force so that they had superiority at key points."
That is, surely, the essence of how a small, ill-equipped army beats a larger, stronger one? It manouvres and fights battles against piecemeal elements. It's why good generalship is so important. A David led by a donkey would lose every time.
Good call on Agincourt. Now there's an army that should not have won... Does the Siege of Vienna by Suleiman the Magnificent count? The Austrians were hopelessly outnumbered by the cream of the Ottoman army. -
Message 24
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
pc1973,
What about the 1812 Anglo American conflict. I think America had six frigates vs the most powerful Navy in the world.Β
You'd have a better arguement for the War of American Independence. Yes, the Yanks eventually got French help but only after they showed some mettle at Saratoga. -
Message 25
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
Battle of Milne Bay?? For an aussie I knew little about this until a few years ago, but it seems a kind of david vs goliath.
And how true is it that a couple of Gladiators defended Malta??? Sounds increadible on the face of it... -
Message 26
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
Agreed, Matt, you beat me to it.
I think 'O'Connor's Genius' is the whole point of the exercise, and the fact that he went on the attack against a superior force at all. The fact that he met it piecemeal only adds to the vision of Italian incompetence, which must (in almost all cases) be a feature of such David / Goliath battles.
Agreed about Agincourt as well - again, French incompetence was a major factor.
I was going to mention Malta, in my earlier post, except air battles are a different kettle of fish, as I said before. They did not 'win' as such, (mind you, mere survival was a considerable victory!) but hung on until help arrived. -
Message 27
Posted by WarsawPact (U1831709) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
Taranto? The idea of a force of biplanes achieving anything in WW2 is pretty incredible.
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Message 28
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
... well that is part II (see earlier message)... this is the absolute... read it as a novel... it is better than that... it is a real story... the real thing!!!
(part 2)
May 1821, central Greece... a fully equiped 8,000+ turkish army led by Omer Vryonis comes down...
Odusseas Androutsos - born in Ithaca like his same-named ancestor - gathered with some men to talk of what to do, all that in a road inn (hani=inn) near Gravia village, which was situated in mountainous passage but really do not imagine any "ancient Thermopyles narrow", the Hani was in more open space and could be encircled). He tried to convince them that Omer Vruonis would pass from there not to go to the Isthmus but to Galaxidi right in the south and from there pass to Peloponese, a quicker road and thus he had to be stopped or at least delayed to give some time for some more organisation for defense and a counter-offensive. Panourgias and Diovouniotis, the other 2 chiefs agreed to get hold of some strategic positions in the passage so they took their men to the positions but Odduseas were asking the rest of the men to stay also there! Men were all reluctant, they asked him:
- "Were "here" exactly do you want to stop Omer? They are 10,000, with horses and canons"
and Odduseas answers
- "right hear, I mean in this very inn, we fill it with as much bullets and powder we can and we slaughter them!"
- "You are crazy, this is impossible, we will not sit for this madness".
- "Yes, I know. That is why I will do it. But if you leave now you are not men, you are chicken afraid of these stupid-turks. I will stay here so that there is at least 1 man left to fight to these beasts."
A young boy of not even 18 years old called George (if I remember well) said "Chief, I will stay with you". Odduseas grabs him by the shoulder and says:
- "Well at least I am not alone, there also another 1 man here. So we stay George, us two, and fight"
and he turns to the musicians of the inn and says
- Now guys play some music, and only those who are staying to fight dance, that is me and George. Nobody else dances, unless they want to stay here with us, if they do they join our circle...
... and they started dancing, Odduseas and Giorgos to some warrior music... the others watched in disbelief but then they got moved by the madness of Odduseas and the courage of the young boy, soon one after the other many soldiers got into the circle of the dance thus staying to fight... and the end it was pretty much all of them 118 men including Odduseas.
They prepared the place, closed the windows leaving only holes for the snipers, fabricated the bullets, brought in all the power needed to last lots of hours of fighting (and perhaps even blowing up the place if overwhelmed) and tried to prepare each other psychologically for meeting an army that was not 2, not 5, not 10 not 50 but 90 times bigger! 90 times bigger!
To give you an idea of the sheer madness, the modern place of the Hani looks like that (the Hani is a reconstruction just next to the remains of the historic one but then the rest of the surrounding has not changed any dramatically for the last 200 years. As you can see it has lots of open spaces and is certainly not even a good idea for 118 men to defend the place against 300 men not 8,000 infantry and 1000 cavalry and on the top canons...
Simply said, this place makes the Thermopyles sound like piece of cake...
The next day, morning of 9th May 1821 (revolution raging just 1,5 month then), the turkish army of Omer Vryonis arrived. It was the 8000 infantry while the cavalry and canons were coming the next day. Omer saw the inn fortified and learnt that it was Odduseas who was in with his men. The Turks knew well Odduseas since he was a well known militia chieftain, son of a chieftain Georgios Androutsos, before the revolution, respected (when Ottomans respected it was out of fear) and thus even accepted in the Bektashi religious sect (a muslim sect that was sometimes open also to orthodox christians, many bektashis were descendants of ex-christians anyway). So he decided to send a Bektashi imam to convince Odduseas to stop this madness. Odduseas welcomed the bektashi outside the inn. He greated him in Arvanite dialect (a dialect with an Albanian linguistic basis but intensely hellenised or turkified depending the speaker ethnic background) (a lingua franca among Greeks and Turkish as most Ottoman troops were Turkish-Albanians while Greek militia served most of the times with them in the past like Odduseas had done - Greek was of course not at all appreciated around Ottomans, mere words could simply cost peoples' lifes!).
- "Heloo imam, where are you heading today?"
The imam stood proud on his horse, turned slowly and meaningfully to the mass of the turkish-albanian army and told him
- "I am going to the city of Salona to chop the heads of infidels"
Odduseas was enraged by the rude answer of the imam and jumped out with his pistol
- "You son of a b*, you are going nowhere you stay right here..."... and shot him dead.
That was visible from the Turkish side, Omer Vruonis ordered an immediate attack. 1000s of Turkish and mainly Turkish Albanians filled the path running fast against the inn, at least 600 in the front who fell on the building encircling it trying to get in by every means but were welcomed by the continuous rounds of some 80 rifles while at the same time the rest in the back were preparing for the next round). The Turko-albanians also were firing but to no avail as Greeks snipers had been covered nicely inside the building, they actually had not managed even to wound anyone. 10s of bodies of them lay around the inn. Soon Turko-albanians ran back to find refuge out of the fire zone. Omer Vryonis got enraged by the "incompetence" of his troops and rushed them with curses but also promises of payment in future looting to fight those "infidels", this time a second wave of more than 1000 Turks attacked, only to find death as soon as they reached the walls of the inn. Noon came and the fighting continued untill the evening with successive waves of Turkish-Turkishalbanians trying to break in the inn. By the end some arguably courageous Albanians had managed to climb to 1-2 walls and kill with pistols 6 brave souls inside but they were all of them slain with swords and knifes inside. As the evening started falling, desperation fell in the Turkish camp, Omer Vryonis understood his mistake of underestimating the capabilities of this crazy Greeks. He counted already 300 dead and 800 seriously wounded ones, many of them left scattered shouting around the inn... out of these more than 300 hundred died in the next days making the toll really heavy as already the 1/8th of the army was out from an enemy of the size of 1/90th of his overall army. Pure misery! Hence Omer decided to simply wait for the cavalry and the canons that would arrive the next day to demolish the inn with bombardment.
However, Androutsos seeing the Turks setting tents realised the plan so he told his men that they would anyway die from distance by canonballs so they might as well try their luck escaping... through the turkish camp, crossing inside it(!!!) in the night. That is what they did, splitting in small groups of 10 men passing inside the Turkish camp killing with knifes the guards and whoever came in the way. Turko-albanians were too tired of the battle and of course could not imagine such a sneaky attack inside their large camp. Of course at some point some of them saw the dead bodies and raised a general alarm, the soldiers began to wake up and started searching for the Greeks, then Odduseas, like the captain he was he was one of the last to enter and cross he shouted in Albanian
- " the infidels are there, I saw them going there brothers, come...catch them"
and run towards the opposite direction permitting most of his men to escape safely... himself he run until the point where it was obvious there was no-one and then escaped at a suitable moment
--------------------
I am sorry for the space it took but this is the absolute story. It sounds crazy but reality dwarfs the craziest of myths. This is a real historic event that happened only 188 years back. And events and details are accurately pictured in extreme details, if unfolded all the story is even more crazy. The mere thought of 118 men dancing their way inside a small rural inn to defend it against an army of 8,000 fanatics outside is mind-blowing, it is the absolute story and dwarfs anythin you have heard up to know... Thermopyles is a good story but Spartans came there not to fight as 300(+700) against 20,000 (of the Persian vanguard) but as 7,000. At the end they had no choice as per their city's laws which they respeced. However Androutsos and his men went there exactly with the idea of them, 118, fighting against while there was no other law forcing them to do so other than the love for their Ethnos and a mans own personal pride (there is nothing more honourable than these both). Thermopyles really looks pale in front of what Androutsos have done. I am sure down in Hades Leonidas stands up when Androutsos passes around... -
Message 29
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
I don't quite agree, Allan....
Israel had military and financial support from the US, and therefore they were a much stronger nation militarily than their surrounding Arab states. I think it was more of a surprise that Egypt held their own against Israel in the Yom Kippur War of 1973 for a good period of that conflict....
<quote> Israel over the Arab states in 1948, 1967 & 1973. -
Message 30
Posted by Sixtus Beckmesser (U9635927) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
the British/EIC army -v- The Sikh Army
Ferozeshah, Mudki, Aliwal, Sobraon
The British were heavily outnumbered and outgunned by probably the finest artillery outside Europe. Moreover, the Sikh army had invaded and had the advantage of surprising the British when they were strung out over the North West of India.
Four incredibly hard-fought battles which inbued both sides with a healthy respect for their opponents. No wonder that the Sikh nation formed the backboned of the Imperial Indian Army under the Raj. -
Message 31
Posted by Sixtus Beckmesser (U9635927) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
.....and of course, surely one of the ultimate David -v- Goliath contests was First and early stages of the Second Boer War.
Bunch of farmers and amateur soldiers completely humbles the largest empire in the world! -
Message 32
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
giraffe
I am not disagreeing about O'Connor's tactical genius, just that the disparity between forces was not great enough to justify a David versus Goliath description.
Nor was Western Desert Force ill-equipped. Churchill's famous "armoured brigade" rushed through the Med in August 1940 was in fact not a brigade but the units needed to bring 7th Armoured div up to strength (a field regiment, an A/Tk regt, a light armoured regiment and a medium armoured regiment) plus two additional field regiments.
And as well as O'connor's skill, we shouldn't forget Wavell, who conceived the whole thing and brought in O'Connor from Palestine rather than use thew more pedestrian Wilson, who was GOC British Troops in Egypt and wanted the command.
Maybe we need a separate thread.
For the same reason, I wouldn't count the actions of the Army of Northern Virginia, because it vwas not overwhelmingly outnumbered. On the other hand, Jackson's Valley Campaign, holding off three opposing forces, would seem to fit.
Cheers
LW -
Message 33
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
warsawpact
definitely taranto
its unbelievable that these stringbags using torpedoes smashed a modern navy - only the rn could do that lol
st -
Message 34
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
what about Eben Emael
70 german paratroopers landed by gliders on the most impregnable fortress in the world and using the new hollow charge explosives - took the fortress and 1200 belgians prisoner
st -
Message 35
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
Even if I take out the possibility of Belgians fighting inter-tribal wars inside that fortress it is still 70 against 1200 (1/20) but using explosives... in my absolute case there are 118 against 8,000 (1/80 and 1/90 if taking into consideration the +2,000 of the army that would come the next morning) ending up in "incapacitating" around the 1/8th of it... using a couple of rifles, pistols, swords and knifes... and Belgians of WWII were much less wild, fanatic or barbaric than Turkoalbanians of 1821....
... search as much as you can, Androutsos is the real thing! Leonidas his flashback copy... haha! -
Message 36
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
... now that I say... there also the case of up to 5,000 Greeks but led in seperate parts of 1000 warriors by known chiefs all led by the leadership of Theodoros Kolokotronis that managaed to clear off the army of Dramalis numbering a bit more than 40,000. Out of the 40,000 only 6,000 survived to run away to the north...
... still ... given the 1/90 of Androutsos I think the 1/8 of Kolokotronis can be seen as a blatant unfair advantage of Greeks vs. the Turks...
(hilarious!). -
Message 37
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
Some interesting suggestions there folks – thanks for your replies.
I’d agree particularly with JB’s suggestion of von Lettow-Vorbeck and the Askaris. Cut off an isolated they managed to nevertheless hold out against the British in East Africa for the whole duration of the First World War. Also Thomas B’s suggestion of Michael Collins and the tiny IRA which immediately followed that war.
Perhaps the most obvious example was given by MattJ18 which was that of Alexander the Great v the Persian Empire. Although, as Alexander was technically himself the aggressor this could count against him - nevertheless it still remains, perhaps, the ultimate underdog’s victory.
That said (and staying with the ancient world) I’m surprised that no-one suggested the actual story of David and Goliath itself. Is there any historical evidence to support the Biblical tale as fact?
First prize, however, has to go to WarsawPact for suggesting the Winter War 1939-40 when Finland held off the entire might of Stalin’s Soviet Union. That was until the spring thaw enabled the Soviets tanks to breach the Mannerheim Line and so forced the Finns to sue for peace. -
Message 38
Posted by MattJ18 (U13798409) on Sunday, 25th October 2009
The Boer War is certainly a good example. Perhaps, in similar vein, we should include the Vietnamese vs. The Americans? I know that they received support from China and Russia, but they had a tiny industrial base in comparison. Perhaps Davids do better when they are guerillas rather than actual stand-up armies?
-
Message 39
Posted by VF (U5759986) on Monday, 26th October 2009
Ok technically they both sank...........
But The Kormaran's battle with HMAS Sydney is deserved of a mention. -
Message 40
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Wednesday, 28th October 2009
How about Khe Sanh?
The apparently "major concentration" of VC and NVA forces took on the under siege US Marines at KSCB - David in the form of the USMC admittedly with support of Goliath's estranged brother-in-law from the USAF SAC B-52's withstood the hammer blows of the NVA.
The reason I say this is because the USMC could have ignored Khe Sanh altogether - I know it's arguable whether it counts but one for the record for judgement.
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