Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
The Week We Went to War
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Message 1.Β
Posted by GrumpyEarlyBird (U14133018) on Friday, 11th September 2009
This is an excellent show but is not actually about the week we went to war; its about the blitz - largely 1940/41 and is also largely about the South Eastern corner of the UK. Liverpool was the 2nd most bombed city in the UK, with nearly 2,000 killed in December 1940 alone. The City was the HQ for the North Atlantic Fleet and most convoys either arrived in or left from the port. Why do programme makers invariably ignore the contribution of Liverpool and its people to the war effort?
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Message 2
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 11th September 2009
I agree. If you were to take your history from films and T V shows, you would swear that no bomb fell outside of the southeast. Although Land Girls does have a character from Coventry, and references are made to the bombing there. My home town Bootle (North of Liverpool, and the home to most of the biggest of the Liverpool docks, and of course the Gladstone Dock, home of the convoy escorts) suffered more damage per head of population than anywhere else in the country, with 85% of the houses being damaged or destroyed. Bootles dead and injured are dumped in with Liverpool though. One thing I am proud of though is helping to save the clock from my old school. The school was struck by a bomb at the hight of the May Blitz, and the clock stopped, never to be restarted or replaced. When the school was closed, a senior officer BORROWED it. I went to my Mayor, and between us, rescued it. It now has pride of place in Bootle Town Hall along side of a plaque to the dead of Bootle.
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Message 3
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Friday, 11th September 2009
Why do programme makers invariably ignore the contribution of Liverpool and its people to the war effort?Β
Could it be that there's film footage of the East End blitz, and none of Liverpool?
Most documentaries now try to run as much contempory film as possible.
But it would be good to hear about Liverpool. I have relatives who lived in Bootle during the blitz and being close to the docks it got a real hammering. -
Message 4
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 11th September 2009
Bootle had its own film unit, attached to the Fire Brigade. Much of it, when Bootle became part of Sefton, vanished.
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Message 5
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Friday, 11th September 2009
GrumpyFred,
How I agree with these posts. But are we at fault for allowing our history to be distorted?
Last night I happen to see The One Show (yes I do have my weak moments) where Dan Snow introduced what was claimed to be a celebration of the founding of the air arm of the Royal Navy.
First he proceeded to inform us that the RNAS was formed 9 years before the RAF(but he made no mention of the RFC which was almost its contemporary)and then spent a few minutes describing how the Bismark was torpedoed, then presumably a lot of money investigating the submerged wreck of the M2 submarine.
A very curious history indeed. Can we blame the public for getting a distorted vision of history?
Regards Spruggles. -
Message 6
Posted by Old Hermit (U2900766) on Friday, 11th September 2009
Also convenient that he forgot to mention those years when the FAA was just a part of the RAF.
Wasn't Dan Snow also the public face of the view a few years ago that the Battle of Britain wasn't really significant because the Navy would have stopped the German invasion anyway?
Grumpys,
I agree with Liverpool being almost totally written out of the histories of the Second World War. Apart from London, all you hear about when it comes to bombing is Coventry or Portsmouth (last one I may have got mixed up with Plymouth). This morning's The Week We Went to War claimed that Clydebank was the most heavily bombed place outside of London, going against established fact. And Kathryn Jenkins is awful at presenting! -
Message 7
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 11th September 2009
Hermit, My Father was a Royal Marine in Plymouth when it was flattened. He went down into the shelter, and when he came out, there wasn't two bricks on top of each other. Nobody mentions the Lord Mayor and Mayoress of Southampton (Lord and Lady Astor) who retired to their home miles away from the city and left their people to it.
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Message 8
Posted by GrumpyEarlyBird (U14133018) on Saturday, 12th September 2009
It is quite likely that there is very little original footage of Liverpool at war. I asked my mother about this some years ago and she said it was because the City was under a security blackout. As HQ for the North Atlantic Fleet and main assembly point for convoys etc, contemporary reporting of damage in the city and to shipping would have had a detrimental effect on morale and have given the enemy information and so on. That is no excuse for writing the city and its people out of history - even those programmes dealing with North Atlantic Convoys rarely mention the port.
I have seen only one piece of evidently contemporary footage - a scene in 'The Cruel Sea' where a convoy escort is returning to see the famous Mersey seafront and Birkenhead on the other side of the river flattened.
In this day and age, it ought to be possible to locate footage or recreate images from that time: at the very least, some reference ought to be possible. -
Message 9
Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 12th September 2009
There were a couple of similar programmes shown in Scotland. The STV one seemed to be a re-edited version of previous programmes but the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Scotland one was very good and managed to coverage quite a range of topics.
It was more relevant to the first week of the war because I seem to remember that the first bomb fell on Scotland, the first person killed was in Scotland and the first enemy aircraft shot down there.
I don't know how Clydebank compares with the other areas South of the border but it was very badly hit though part of the problem was the incompetence of the local council. -
Message 10
Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 12th September 2009
PS I don't think Katherine Jenkins did all that bad as I think it is the first series she has presented, I have seem plenty of regular presenters who are far worse.
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Message 11
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Saturday, 12th September 2009
for bombs outside london try Dover at war by roy humphreys
the most continuously bombed/shelled town in the war
the loss of a complete high street by enemy shelling
notable for the bit where a chap found a mortar bomb and took it back to his shed to open it - he and his girlfriend died - a darwin death i believe lol
st -
Message 12
Posted by caveman1944 (U11305692) on Sunday, 13th September 2009
Message1.
For the country generally, 1940/41 was the extent of the bombing during the war. One year! THe last raid on Liverpool was soon after the May Blitz.
THe Maunsell Towers which were built across the Mersey in early 1942 were too late as bombing was finished.
I very much doubt your fogure of 2,000 killed in 1940 as raids were light and only starting then. I walked to work during raids and i was in more danger from shell splinters than bombs.
I worked nights at the Co-op bakery, and three of us went downstairs and onto the street to watch a Heinkel caught in searchlights with all guns banging away, flying on into low cloud.
Of course, during that short period of bombing, one year out of six , there were many nights of inactivity.
Any civilian death through bombing is bad, and I look to a raid of March 12/13th when, with a cousin, i was on the streets, due to report to Parkhall Camp, Oswestry on the 13th.
That raid was heavy with many parachute mines,
one killing a family of eight, and one close enough to me for me to hear it, a dreadful and menacing sound, not a quick swish of a bomb.
Civilian losses are overlooked by the large numbers in these islands who scarce knew there was a war on in terms of bombing. THey should be remembered as much, if not more than those who parade at the Cenotaph.
While Liverpool is said to be the second city in terms of casualties, it must be remembered that London is a far larger area. -
Message 13
Posted by GrumpyEarlyBird (U14133018) on Thursday, 24th September 2009
Dear Researcher,
The official City of Liverpool wartime website and many other specific Liverpool at war websites deal with the bombing over the city at the time. Also the museum service holds many records of the period, including casualty figures.
I agree that London is larger than the city of Liverpool, however the area subjected to the bombing on merseyside included Speke and Bootle and the docks stretched all along the river front. Cammell Laird and the town of Birkenhead were also targets and heavily bombed. Whilst London covered a larger area, the population was also proportionately larger at the time.
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