Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Modern Main Battle Tanks
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Elkstone (U3836042) on Wednesday, 19th August 2009
I saw a documentary on the history channel about tanks, and said that the British Challenger is the world's best with its impenetratable armour. in the gulf war it suffered no losses and could kill iraqi tanks from 2 miles, no other can do that.
well I was of the opinion that the Israelis had the best tanks in the world. Or could it be there tanks are up against inferior Arab tanks so dont have to be as cutting edge as the Challenger?
If the challenger was so good how come the Israelis dont order them? or the other armies? -
Message 2
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
The C 2 is (By all sides considered the best. It now outguns most tanks, but the British (I suspect) don't offer the right package to the buyers. By that I mean big enough payements to certain people. When they do, such as with the Typhoon, word leaks out and the are calls for enquiries. The I D F build their own tank which meets their needs. Oh, it suffered a blue on blue loss.
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Message 3
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
THe IDF's Merkavas do have a limited capacity to act as APCs, which the IDF probably finds more important than the superiority of the Challenger 2. Anyway, Israel, and many other countries are sensitive about being dependant on foriegn suppliers. When the French blocked further Mirage sales to Israel, they were forced to produce the unlicensed Kfir, a copy Mirage without the avionics, so markedly less capable.
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Message 4
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
Israel would probably like to have the C2 the question is would a british government sell it to them?
Part of the secret of the C2's success is the armour. Chobam plate. A laminate of various materials the exact recipie of which is still a secret. The only people other than the Brits that use it are the Americans in the Abrams. Its never been sold, or liscenced to any one else and there is no way in this world that we are going to pass it on to any one else.
Could the Americans sell it on? well probably but they keep it back because israels got a history for selling on equipment based on other peoples technology in particular to China. The Israelies got the contract to design the upgrades to the chinese version of the T55's and T62's. pipping the yanks the russians and britain to it.
Right now in any future tank battle we can feild an armoured division knowing its practically bullet proof. Pass it on to Israel and in side three years half the world will have it. -
Message 5
Posted by Old Hermit (U2900766) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
It wouldn't exactly help the peace process either would it? Besides, Britain historically sold weapons to the Arab nations not Israel (at least in the late 40s early 50s anyhow).
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Message 6
Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
When the French blocked further Mirage sales to Israel, they were forced to produce the unlicensed Kfir, a copy Mirage without the avionics, so markedly less capable.Β
Actually, the aircraft the French refused to deliver was the Mirage 5, an unsophisticated fighter-bomber version of the Mirage III, developed at Israeli request. The Israelis had decided they didn't need some of the complex systems, and it was better to carry a heavier load and save money. So it was logical that the Israeli copy, the Nesher, had relatively simple avionics as well. (The Kfir was a later development, with US support, powered by an American J79 engine instead of the French Atar.)
As for Israeli military purchases, don't forget the USA gives Israel $3 billion a year in military aid. I am sure it would be considered impolite to spend it on British-manufactured goods. -
Message 7
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
What does 3 Billion buy you these days? Tanks yes, but new A/C The latest gen. Raptors and Typhoons are beyond most countries bank books.
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Message 8
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Friday, 21st August 2009
Too true, Fred!
Now I can remember when 3 billion was REAL money . . . -
Message 9
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 21st August 2009
from what i understand and remember after gulf war 1 - the abrams was the most sought after tank - countries were queueing up to buy it
the challenger had bad performance problems in that it kept breaking down
mind u after that MBTs were history as anti tank weapons and helicopters had nullified the use of armour
apparently the chobham armour was intact but 500 yards away from the tank lol
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