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What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Saturday, 15th August 2009
In a number of photo's during his time as Britains wartime leader, Sir Winston Churchill is seen not only wearing a full R A F uniform, but pilots wings. What right did he have to wear either?
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Message 2
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 15th August 2009
In April 1939 he was made Honorary Air Commodore of No.615 (County of Surrey) Squardron of the Auxiliary Air Force with which he served. He was awarded his honorary pilot's wings by the Air Council in March 1943 when the citation read in part:
"the Prime Minister's part in the creation of the R.A.F., [in 1918] his "30,000 miles of flying on duty during the present war and his work as Minister of Defence constitute unique qualifications."
He was the only person apart from George V to be awarded honorary "wings" although he had qualified as a pilot whilst First Lord of the Admiralty before WWI and had flown solo. He frequently took the controls during his wartime flights in WWII.
He most famously wore his Air Commodore's uniform (with wings) during the Teheran Conference in November 1943. Other uniforms he frequently wore was that of the (non-military) Commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron which he wore to the Atlantic Conference with FDR in August 1941 and that of Colonel-in-Chief of the 4th Queen's Own Royal Hussars which he was. For more information see here:
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Message 3
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Saturday, 15th August 2009
Thanks for clearing up that. His picture is in todays Mail, and he is in full R A F Uniform.
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Message 4
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 15th August 2009
I think it was his favourite uniform for a number of reasons: he was proud of his service in the Auxiliary Air Force and the honour he had been given when he was still in the political wilderness, he was a keen aviator from the inception of flying, it reminded him of the Battle of Britain, his and the nation's 'finest hour', Biggin Hill was close to his country home of Chartwell and his Royal Yacht Squadron uniform tended to make him look like a train driver (although it was popular in the US).
George VI often wore his Marshal of the RAF uniform in public at the outset of the war although with a side cap rather than the peaked cap Churchill preferred but as Churchill adopted his air commodore's uniform (first seen, I think, on a visit to Stalin in August 1942) George reverted to his Admiral of the Fleet's uniform on public occasions.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 5
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 15th August 2009
Churchill's fondness for his RAF Air commodore's uniform may well have been because it was the senior rank he was entilted to, and he had always wanted to be a general.
He was criticised both for wearing full RAF wings, and for wearing his uniform on inappropriate occasions; honorary officers should only wear their uniforms when on parade with the unit of which they are an honorary officer. It was a joke in 613 Sqn that they were only posted to the Middle East so that Churchill could wear his uniform when out there.
His penchant for uniform was tolerated during the crises of the early war period, but was criticised by Alanbrooke, Portal and the Palace.
The wings were a slightly more awkward issue. He had been granted RNAS wings before the Great War, but in those days all you had to do to qualify was to obtain a pilot's licence and have a check ride at the Central Flying School. By 1940, it took a lot more to qualify for wings. Ex-RNAS officers who stayed in the RAF of course changed their wings, but they went on flying operationally. WWI pilots recalled from reserve in WWII to fill ground jobs often either wore their RNAS/RFC wings or none at all to indicate they were not modern pilots. I must admit I had not heard of the Air Council instruction - anyone have a reference? - but if it was made it probably was done to try to end the embarrassment.
If so, it does not seem to have worked. Churchill chose to spend Armistice Day 1944 in Paris (possibly because he had been told not to wear uniform in London). Clemmie wrote to him there, imploring him not to wear his RAf uniform and, if he must, not to wear the wings, which indicates he had been told not to do both things. (This is in Gilbert's single volume biography).
Churchill ignored her, and in fact commited the additional crime of being "out of uniform" - he couldn't get his tunic belt on comfortably, so left it off.
I haven't found any rrecord of exchnages between Churchill, the Chiefs of Staff or the Palace (hardly surprising), but churchill did not wear his Air Commodore's uniform again during the war, and he only appeared in his Honorary Colonel's uniform (he was Honorary Colonel of the 4th Hussaars and the Oxfordshire Hussars Yeomanry) at formal parades.
I think it is an interesting sidelight on Churchill's vanity and his ability to act like a spoiled brat over small things, but the wings issue did upset people at the time and a more sensitive personality would have responded to the criticism.
As an aside, Mountbatten was also notorious for wearing inappropriate decorations (apparently there are some orders you don't wear with others), and getting told off for it.
I suppose even the greatest must have an Achilles Heel.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 6
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 15th August 2009
In view of Churchill's services to nations I find the criticisms above exceptionally petty and small-minded. It reminds me of George VI's obsession with the details of ceremonial dress that was certainly a flaw of his personality. I don't think the British people ever resented Churchill wearing military uniform during WWII (I doubt he ever wore one during his peacetime Premiership).
It symbolised his role as a war leader and, like his hallmark cigar and his eccentric outfits such as a solar topee, golf umbrella and bedroom slippers with the embroidered initials "WC" on his visit to the Eighth Army in 1942, it made him instantly recognisable.
I doubt if Roosevelt was in the least offended when he turned up to see him in the uniform of the commodore of a yacht club (albeit an elite one). Churchill's childish love of dressing up was an endearing trait and his fondness for donning various outfits, ceremonial and otherwise, had been caricatured by political cartoonists throughout his career. He even joined in the fun by adopting the archetypal working class uniform of the boiler suit, although suitably adapted, during WWII.
The pettiness exhibited by the military elite you mention was clearly an exhibition of jealousy as they were eager to claim the credit for any success in the war for themselves but blame Churchill's interference for any failure.
I was watching Sir Max Hastings' "Winston's War" recently and it was notable that he recalled that in their final meeting at the end of the European war Churchill praised the Chiefs of Staff in hyperbolic terms as "the greatest military leaders in Britain's history" whilst the Chiefs of Staff could not bring themselves to utter one word of thanks for Churchill's leadership. Says it all, I think.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 7
Posted by ex4thhussar (U520216) on Sunday, 16th August 2009
Longweekend
I see you say that "and he only appeared in his Honorary Colonel's uniform (he was Honorary Colonel of the 4th Hussaars and the Oxfordshire Hussars Yeomanry) at formal parades"
I think it might be fair to point out to those who are not Churchill fans that he actually had served in the 4th Queen's Own Hussars during his earlier military career.
I write as a Churchill "fan" who also was proud to have known him, warts & all !
Ron G.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 8
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 16th August 2009
Ron and Allan
My observations about Churchill's Honorary Colonelcies were not criticisms - I was making the point that he stuck to the rules after Nov 44. He was indeed a 4th Hussar for five years, and he was also a serving officer in the Oxfordshire Yeomanry - indeed he initially went to France in 1915 as a major in that regiment. He was also an obvious man for an Honorary Air Commodore appointment (although it is interesting that his friend Trenchard did not pick him for one of the original RAuxAf squadrons in the '20s).
I disagree that this is simply sniping at a great man. In historical terms, it is a useful insight into the vain and selfish streak that was a part of Churchill's makeup, and which could lead him into unecessary petty conflict, as it did here. As for "the British people" not objecting, wellclearly some of them did, or there would have been no controversy.
The people who objected were aircrew themselves, and families. It should be borne in mind that RAF (and for that matter FAA and AAC ones) are hard-earned qualification, not an award. A lot of young men died in training trying to qualify for them.
For a comparison in a minor key, I should not think you would have been impressed if Dennis Healey or Ted Heath had claimed to have served in the 4th Hussars, simply because it would not have been true, not because of their merits as officers.
I disagree that Churchill's behaviour equates to George VI's. Ceremonial was and is a key part of the role of Head of State and George VI was additionally much concerned with restoring the reputation of the monarcxhy after his brother's behaviour. It may have been tiring for his staff, and annoying for those, like Mountbatten and Churchill, who wanted to flout it for their own convenience, but it was a concern with the rules and conventions, not an abuse of them.
As for the Chiefs of Staff, they did say the appropriate words of appreciation. But Churchill was a very difficult man to work for and Alanbrooke in particular was exhausted. He was also faced with having to stay on in post for an extra year, which he did not want, and not having gained the Governor-Generalship of Canada (which went to Alexander), which he did want (although it was not entirely Churchill's fault he did not get it). Portal was dealing with Churchill's two-faced last-minute criticism of the Bomber Offensive.
Churchill was indeed a great man, and an important historical figure, but that does not mean his faults should be ignored.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 9
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Sunday, 16th August 2009
The people who objected were aircrew themselves, and families.Β
Is there any evidence for this. Churchill was a qualified pilot and crashed several times whilst learning to fly.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 10
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Monday, 17th August 2009
It is recorded that while he was leaning to fly there was a mix-up between WC and his instructor as to whom had control of the aircraft. After the instructor realized that in fact no one was in control(not an inconsiderate risk in those early days)he apologised by saying that is was 'a case of falling between two stools' WC is said to have replied that it was, 'More like stalling between two fools.'
Regards to all.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 11
Posted by Herberts_Elephant (U11324499) on Tuesday, 18th August 2009
"Churchill was indeed a great man, and an important historical figure, but that does not mean his faults should be ignored."
Quite correct, LongWeekend, his lack of loyalty to Bomber Command personnel was utterly repugnant.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 12
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Tuesday, 18th August 2009
Greetings HE,
How right you are. Campaign medal for Bomber Command anyone?Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 13
Posted by U3280211 (U3280211) on Thursday, 20th August 2009
Churchill was a qualified pilot and crashed several times whilst learning to fly.Β
A mixed qualification, that.
Churchill certainly qualified as an aviator (he went solo) but did he ever get his Pilot's Licence? Did the PPL even exist then?
I doubt that he would have been a safe pair of hands for a late-correction crosswind landing when the QNH was low.
Few of us would want to be operated on by someone with an 'Honorary Scalpel' nor flown by someone with 'Honorary Wings'Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 14
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Friday, 21st August 2009
The forerunner of the PPL was the Royal Aero Certificate. No 1 certificate was awarded in 1909/10 to Moore-Brabazon. To obtain the certificate cost about Β£100 in those days but by 1912 if the winner then went on to join either the RFC or the RNAS most of the costs were reimbursed by those fledgling organizations.
I do not believe that Churchill ever qualified for such an award.
Regards Spruggs.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 15
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Friday, 21st August 2009
In the 2nd volume of his authorised biography of his father (and the last to be written by him) "Young Statesman 1901-14" Randolph Churchill describes how the death of Captain Wildman-Lushington of the Royal Marines, Churchill's flying instructor, in a separate accident in the summer of 1914 alarmed his friends, such as F.E.Smith (later Lord Birkenhead) and especially his wife who pressed him to give up flying to which he reluctantly conceded.
However in a letter to her from the Admiralty Yacht written on 6 June 1914 he states:
"This is a wrench, because I was on the verge of taking my pilot's certificate. It only needed a couple of calm mornings; & I am confident of my ability to achieve it vy respectably. I shd greatly have liked to have reached this point wh wd have made a suitable moment for breaking off..."
Although he did give up flying without qualifying as a pilot Churchill fils states after quoting this letter:
"Churchill was not to resume flying until his official business at the Ministry of Munitions in 1917 compelled him to make frequent visits to France."
although he fails to state whether as passenger or pilot. There is film of Churchill at the controls during his WWII flights when he often shared the pilot's cockpit to relieve the boredom of the long journeys although his lack of a pilot's certificate would presumably have precluded him from taking off and landing to the no doubt genuine relief of all concerned.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 16
Posted by U3280211 (U3280211) on Friday, 21st August 2009
Sprugs, Allan D.
Good research both of you.
This is a wrench, because I was on the verge of taking my pilot's certificate. It only needed a couple of calm mornings(From Allan D; quoted from WSC)Β
This is the sort of thing that Winston would have found tricky, given his desire for 'calm mornings'...
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Message 17
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Saturday, 22nd August 2009
U3280211,
I know what you mean! However it might help those who are unaware of the difficulties of early aviation to point out a few details.
First the margin between 'flying speed' and stalling(where sufficient airflow over the wings cannot be maintained to create lift)was, during those early years extremely narrow. This was due to the problem of finding an efficient power to weight ratio performance of the engine.
Because of the relatively slow flying speed(a combination of the poor engine power and the drag and weight of the aircraft) and the primitive form of control the aircraft was reduced to flying in calm conditions. The number of accidents caused by up-draughts and the far more dangerous down-draughts are legion; it is for that reason that the early morning and late evenings were chosen for flying because that is when the air is at its stillest.
One of the most popular flying machines of this period the Bristol Boxkite(well named) posed some interesting problems and a brief example or two will I hope illustrate this.
First the control column. In order that enough movement be obtained caused the 'stick' to be quite long. The hand grip usually being on the pilot's eye line which meant that in order to see where he was going he had to look under his left armpit.
The original controls where 'neutral' in other words ground speed had to reach about twenty miles per hour before the pilot could effectively control the aircraft's' heading(who mentioned trying to land in a crosswind?)and they were extremely heavy(about ten minutes of flying would be quite fatiguing) and considerable care had to be exercised when turning as any loss of flying speed would lead to a stall and spin(but not always fatal). One pioneer when asked what the turning circle of his aircraft was replied, 'about a fortnight' and because of the torque produced by the rotary engine turning to the right was 'damn difficult if not impossible at times.' Add to this the exclusion of flying instruments(oh sorry, there was a 'turn and bank' indicator ... a piece of string)and an engine that was controlled by a 'blip switch' instead of a throttle(landing speed about 30mph) and you can see that flying in those days was slightly more problematical than today.
As one pilot with experience of flying a replica of the Boxkite once put it 'one has the impression that he has merely been a passenger whom the aeroplane has condescended to carry, for in retrospect he is painfully aware that he has had very little control over the situation.'
Mind you, under the influence of war that strange flying machine had developed in less than eight years to speeds and heights unimagined by the pioneers.
Regards Spruggs.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 18
Posted by U3280211 (U3280211) on Sunday, 23rd August 2009
Spruggles.(17)
Greetings.
All you say about the poor power, low speed and limited maneuverability of the early powered aircraft is true, of course.
But in some environments the early aviators had it easier than todayβs trainee pilots.
Cecil Lewis, who volunteered for the RFC age 17, learned to fly on one of these:-
He mentions most of the drawbacks you point out but he does say that;
β¦it had its advantages. If you crashed it, there was such a lot between you and the ground that you were unlikely to get seriously hurt. Also it had no vices. It was docile and well behaved. It climbed at 45, flew level at 60 and settled down like a kite when landing (p23 Sagittarius Rising, C.S. Lewis)Β
He also had the advantage of flying from large open fields where he could watch the wind-sock and take-off and land directly into wind. Steady winds , even strong ones, are not a problem if you can orient straight into them for the slow phases of flight. The gusty crosswinds are the scary beasts, and if you are using a tarmac or concrete runway you cannot change the runwayβs orientation as the winds back or veer.
Nor did the RFC trainee have to worry much about filing flight plans, avoiding restricted airspace, maintaining contact with ATC and radar and approach frequencies, or the blend of fast and slow traffic.
Bumbling along at two thousand feet, in a rented C-152, near Upper Heyford a few years ago, when the Americans were still there, I was slightly alarmed to βbe advisedβ by the US woman on the UHMRA frequency that βthree βfast-movingβ F-111βs will be passing close beneath you, right to left, in about ten seconds. They have you visualβ.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 19
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Monday, 24th August 2009
U3280211,
Greetings,
Did not Lewis solo in a Maurice Farman Longhorn in 1915? Quite a distinct improvement on the Boxkite of 1911 I think. Your are quite correct of course about crash survivability. Have you read 'Open Cockpit' by Arthur Gould Lee? He recounts several quite hairy crashes that he was involved in in the early days.
Gusting winds as you say are very naughty but even headwinds of over twenty knots could be difficult for the pioneers. Even taxing with a biplane aircraft of about 50 feet wingspan was exceedingly difficult with a tail wind because of weather-cocking and where constant opposite aileron had to be applied to keep the aircraft on a steady course, while looking under your arm.
Another major problem was engine reliability. The manufacturers of a Le Rhone might well boast 80 horsepower but the actual output was almost inevitably lower than that figure. Failure of the engine on take-off was a ever present threat not so prevalent in a Continental or a Lycoming I think.
As one whose experience is principally limited to Tiger Moths, I do appreciate how much quieter it was in my day. However, there were no radios or electronic navigational aids either. Safety around an airfield circuit relied purely on eyesight. NO nice man to tell us what to do. On busy days there could be as many as six aircraft in the circuit with usually twelve anxious eyes looking for a chance to slip in or out.
Navigation was accomplished by drawing lines on your map, consultation with the latest weather forecast and then dead reckoning with regular reverences to the terrain with the map on your lap. And Visual Flight Rules only(no artificial horizon in my plane)and there were still(believe it or not)restricted areas to be avoided.
Now, imagine a cross-country flight where suddenly the weather turns and the ceiling falls. Your little friend has to maintain a flight pattern below the clouds while rain/hail stones travelling at 80 knots keeps his little head behind the windscreen. Slowly he is forced to descend until he tries to recall if there are any tall buildings or church spires in his path. The trees begin to look very ominously tall and suddenly a Vickers Viscount on route to Brooklands with everything hanging appears out of the murk directly in front. Yes, our little friend has failed to see that the wind has shifted and he has wandered. Fortunately the crew of the Viscount must have been concentrating hard and failed to see my transgression as nothing was ever said!
One last point; as you rightly said we had great big field to play in but ... there was always restrictions mainly caused by bad drainage and little markers used to mushroom during wet weather and woe betide the careless aviator who stuck his wheels in the boggy bits!
But of course you are right, the relative freedom was wonderful and the memories very precious.
Regards Spruggles.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 20
Posted by U3280211 (U3280211) on Tuesday, 25th August 2009
Spruggles.
Hello again.
Did not Lewis solo in a Maurice Farman Longhorn in 1915? Quite a distinct improvement on the Boxkite of 1911 I think.Β
That's true, there was rapid development in those years. But the Farman Longhorn and the Boxkite shared a similar layout with biplane configuration, pusher prop, long skids, four wheels and an elevator in front of the pilot. This design has much more in common with the earliest 1903 Wright Flyer than the bulk of aircraft in WW1, I think.
Have you read 'Open Cockpit' by Arthur Gould Lee? Β
No, alas, but on your recommendation I shall track it down.
As one whose experience is principally limited to Tiger MothsΒ
Delighted to hear that. Superb aircraft. Do you still attend the Moth rallies? I try to go myself. At the last Woburn Rally I flew with Peter Winters (Belgium) in his beautifully restored TM when he won the spot-landing competition. Like you, I think open-cockpit (whilst ****ock-freezing in winter) is the best flying of the lot.
There were quite a few, current and ex-military, fast-jet pilots flying Moths just for the sheer pleasure, when I was last there.
You describe the old DR map, clock, compass style of navigation. That is still the way everyone is taught although GPS and the odd VOR help enormously, of course.
Slowly he is forced to descend until he tries to recall if there are any tall buildings or church spires in his path.Β
That is the horrible part, I agree Fog or mist is another fright. You fly over the field and can see the runway through the thin layer of murk, but on the approach the murk becomes thick and impenetrable and if you forget to set the QFE you stand a good chance of cruising gently into a hill.
Stick forward and neutral, full opposite rudder.
Take care.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 21
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 25th August 2009
Prospective pilots for the RFC before the war were required to fund their own flying training to obtain their Royal Aero Club certificate. This was refundable once the certificate was obtained. The Army set this refund at Β£75, which became the de facto cost of basic private tuition for prospective flyers. They then had to undergo a check flight at the CFS.
Wings were introduced in 1913 and were to be worn by officers (and NCOs) who had demonstrated they were efficient pilots and could be worn as long as they maintained that proficiency.
TRrenchard was not a good pilot, and his RFC duties did not require him to fly (he was seconded originally to be Adjutant of the CFS), but he dutifully qualified and then flew to maintain his efficiency.
This applied to anyone accepted as a pilot. The RFC did not have a permanent cadre; all officers before the war were seconded from their parent Regiment or Corps (in the Army's case) or their relevant speciality in the RN (Rutland of Jutland was a Pusser, for instance). Those who qualified but were not seconded immediately went into the RFC Reserve, to be called on for expansion on mobilsation.
Dowding took this route, reasoning that a staff officer who could fly (for reconnaisance) would be an asset, and it was his best hope, as a Royal Garrison Artillery officer, of employment and advancement in the expected short, sharp, mobile war that was coming.
As Allan has pointed out, Churchill tried for his certificate but did not obtain it. The RNAS presented him with a set of RNAS wings, but he3 did not try to wear these during his WWI service (wrong Service, of course).Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 22
Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Friday, 28th August 2009
U3280211,
Ah, the winters! I remember once being aloft in late December with the low sun reflecting off the snow covered earth ... and finding that my hands had bled from the pores of my skin as a result(I think) of the repeated banging on my thighs to keep them warm.
But what about those balmy autumn twilight's when at a thousand feet you were alone in the world but for the faint aroma of the straw burning below? Or the ... enough!
Also try 'No Parachute', same author. I had the great privilege of meeting the old gentleman in the 60's. What a lovely man!
Unfortunately I do not attend the Moth rallies but I can be seen occasionally at Shuttleworth's in a dark corner of a hanger eyeing with envy and salivating over certain flying machines.
Throttle nut tight - all clear above and behind ....
Kind Regards,
Spruggs.Link to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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Message 23
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 20th October 2009
Allan
Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but you asked about evidence of aircrew objections to Churchill's wings.
I have drawn a blank in terms of documentary evidence. This intrigues me, because it was a wartime Spitfire pilot who orginally pointed out the wings issue to me. He was a violent supporter of Churchill, but he strongly disapproved of the wings.
I was also trying to find a more specific reference to the Air Council Instruction of March 1943, but again drew a blank. Although it referred to on boards such as this, there is no reference in Churchill's WWII memoirs, no reference in the RAF histories, nothing in Churchill's , or in his correspondence with his friend Archie Sinclair, Secretary of State for Air at the time.
On the other hand, Churchill did not wear the wings when first appointed Honorary Air commodore in 1939, or in the early war years (there is a photo of him inspecting the Oxfordshire Yeomanry in 1940 or 1941, wearing his RAF uniform, which can't have gone down well!). The wings do seem to have appeared in 1943. I was wrong about Churchill not wearing his RAF uniform again after Paris. He wore it when he went to Greece at Christmas 1944 (at short notice). He also wore it again for the reformation of 615 as an RAuxAF squadron in 1948. He still had wings on his uniform then.
I wonder if the lack of reference in the various memoirs and biographies indicates that it is tactictly recognised as a mistake by Churchill to wear the wings, even if authorised by the Air Council.
Would be interested if anyone has ever come across a copy of the Air Council Instruction?
LWLink to this forum: What right did Churchill have to wear R A F Pilots wings?
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