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Wars and ConflictsΒ  permalink

Conchies

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by special needs girl (U13169797) on Thursday, 16th July 2009

  Hi.
  
  Does anyone know the earliest date when someone who was a conscientious objector would receive a prison sentence for not signing up in the second WW?
  
  Also how long would they be in prison?
  
  The person concerned was born April 1922.
  
  He refused to become a Bevin Boy or join the army.
  
  Apparently he served 3 prison sentences.

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.

• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by special needs girl (U13169797) on Thursday, 16th July 2009

  Sorry Big Lad but I didn't understand the reply.
  
  Please can you give a non criptical reply? Thanks

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by 2295wynberglad (U7761102) on Thursday, 16th July 2009

  Special needs girl.
  Strange reply none will understand.
  I think this was about 1940 when a number were sent down, term I am not sure 3 Years? maybe.
  

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Andrew Host (U1683626) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  Just to underline. Spamming is in breach of the House Rules - please desist.
  
  Cheers
  
  Andrew

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  Take a look at the Peace Pledge Union stuff at - might help!

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Spruggles (U13892773) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  special needs girl,
  Your relative was obviously badly advised. Had he joined either the Plymouth Brethren or The Quakers he could have claimed exemption on religious grounds, however he might still have been sent down the mines. Incidentally in late 1944 when the logistics of enlistment were at last properly understood some 30% of all enlisted men were diverted to become Bevan Boys. There were no exemption to this, except the statutory term of imprisonment of I think three years.

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  The one C.O. I had the occasion to talk with about this got exemption on religious grounds as a staunch Methodist. He spent the war working in a sugar factory.

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Andrew Host (U1683626) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  ...and off topic.
  
  Cheers
  
  Andrew

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  special needs girl
  
  Most people who applied for exemption as a Conscientious Objector were granted an exemption if they undertook some other war-related work (agriculture was a common one).
  
  The ones who went to prison were those who refused to undertake any form of war-related work (this included some women who refused to work in factories) or those who had not been granted an exemption from military service, but who refused to serve.
  
  Prison sentences varied (there was something of a "post code lottery" in sentencing and, indeed, in granting of exemptions); six months was common but a year was also possible. The bare minimu was 14 days. After serving the sentence, the offender would be served with call-up papers or notice of directed employment again, and if they refused again, could be sentenced to prison once more.
  
  The earliest anyone could have been sent to prison would have been following the first call-up, in early 1939, before war was declared, but I have not heard of anyone being sent to prison that early. The first custodial sentences seem to have been in 1940.
  
  Your relative would not have been liable to call up until 1942 at the earliest, so his prison terms were probably 1943, 44 and 45, possibly six months at a time. From what you write, he was a total refuser.
  
  There is a chapter on Concientious Objection in Juliket Gardiner's excellent "Wartime Britain 1939-1945" (ISBN 0-7553-1028-4) which explains the system. There is also a section on the personal experiences of COs in Jonathon Croall's "Don't You Know There's A War On?" (ISBN 0-7509-3699-1)
  
  Hope that helps
  
  LW

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• Message 13

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by special needs girl (U13169797) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  Hi Spruggles.
  
  The relative is now dead and it was only on his death bed I found out.
  
  He was a member of the Plymouth Brethren and this is why he refused to go to war.
  
  He refused to go down the mines because his father was a miner (hewer) and had had a number of serious accidents in private mines.
  
  I do know he became a paramedic but I don't know when.
  
  I want to go to the newspapers of the time to find something but obviously there will be a number of papers to go through from 1939 - 1945.
  Hence my question about when did they start to give prison sentences.
  
  Thanks
  

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by special needs girl (U13169797) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  Thanks LW.
  
  My last message was being written as you were writing yours.
  
  You have answered a number of my questions and now I have some dates to start looking at the local papers.
  
  I know some things should be left alone but ....
  
  Thanks again for your help.

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• Message 15

  , in reply to message 13.

  Posted by 2295wynberglad (U7761102) on Friday, 17th July 2009

  Special Needs Girl. I found this a bit strange about Plymouth Brethern, for if my memory serves me right was General Orde Wingate a P.B.?
  So I wonder how the line was drawn? to fight or not to fight.
  Did he not quote and read from the Bible to his men?

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• Message 17

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  Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 18th July 2009

  Special needs girl
  
  You are welcome. You may find that you need to look in the court records rather than the local press - by the middle of the war, the paper may not have been carrying the outcome of CO cases.
  
  If your relative eventually became a paramedic, his periods of imprisonment may have been shorter than I suggested - 1943 and 1944 are probably the years to check. He would have been liable for National Service when he reached the age of 19, so that is when the process would have started.
  
  My understanding of the situation with the Brethren is that, although they are not formally pacifists, their doctrine of Brotherhood leads many to adopt that course. Religious objection to service was not enough to avoid prison if the individual refused any sort of service, including non-combattant, at all.
  
  Your remark about your relative not wanting to go down the mine illustrates a different point about national service. The Trade Unions were very concerned about directed labour in industry; they were afraid that th emploters would use it to break agreed terms and conditions.
  
  The need for increased production of coal became chronic, but before the "Bevin Boy" scheme was introduced, there was a scheme (suggested by the NUM) whereby sons of existing miners would be exempt national service if they registered to work in the mines. This scheme was a failure, because so few miners' sons wanted to go down the pit rather than go off to the Services. Mining, as you note, was very dangerous, and not nearly as well paid as it became after the war.
  
  LW

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• Message 18

  , in reply to message 17.

  Posted by special needs girl (U13169797) on Wednesday, 22nd July 2009

  Thanks LW
  
  I am so sorry some people seem to want to write objectional messages on this discussion.
  
  To those people :
  
  I would like to say that we all have a right to out thoughts, deeds etc. but personal deeds of our ancestors were done for a reason and therefore whatever they did does not cause us today to sit and criticise.
  
  I am just thankful my CO did not go to war. I believe he was a very brave man to go to prison. He was a person who stood for principles and did an awful lot of good for people in his job (after the war) and in his free time. If I had half the compasion that he had I would be more than pleased.
  
  Too many good people died in the wars (and still do). I have relatives that fought and died for their country.
  
  
  To those who have been able to help me THANKS.
  
  I will go to the records office to look for the cout records and see what I can find.
  
  Thanks again LW for all your help. SNG
  

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