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63rd (Royal Naval) Division, Operations on the Ancre Jan-Feb 1917

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by GeoMax (U2100830) on Tuesday, 30th June 2009

  After starting a family tree I've started to look into the death of my Great Great Uncle, Joseph Marsh, who was killed on 6th February 1917. He was an Able Bodied Seaman of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve in the 'Hood Battalion' at the age of 18/19 at the time of death. As well as the info I've just provided I've also managed to find out by googling (I know, I'm not used to this type of thing) that the 63rd Division in February 1917 were involved in the operation to clear the Ancre Valley following the November Somme offensive.
  What I would like to find out (if at all possible) is if there is any specific info that might be held somewhere about his specific death, where he could be burried, or if his body was never knowingly recovered? How he died, exactly where he died or maybe even the specific mission he was on as I know these missions were not officially classified as a battle?
  Also, there does not appear to be any record of a medal card? Are the victory medals not awarded posthumously?
  I'd also like to find out when he actually signed up and then I'd be able to get an idea of which battles/theatres of conflict he was engaged in.
  I've many questions but I realise I might never be able to get any more info than I already have but if anyone on here can give me any info, advice or direction I'd be greatfull!
  

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Wednesday, 1st July 2009

  His record is available on Ancestry, obviously can't send here but ask on a family history list somewhere else and someone might send you a copy.
  
  Or your library might have access to Ancestry, as will a LDS Family History Centre which gives free access.
  
  "Died of wounds in 47th Casualty Clearing Station (Shell wound right thigh & Scrotum) "
  
  There are the dates of his enlistment and postings as well as letter from his Company Commander to his sister.
  
  The War Graves Photographic Project should eventually have a picture of his grave but can't see him in theire index
  
  
  
  MB

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Wednesday, 1st July 2009

  He is buried in a joint grave
  
  "Now buried in a joint grave with London Z/4466 AB A.A. Cook, Nelson Bn. DOW 6/2/17 "
  
  

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Wednesday, 1st July 2009

  Might as well post the important parts
  
  Varennes Military Cemetery (FR 41)
  
  Enlisted 24/10/14 ; Hood Bn. C/246 2/11/14 & C/197 1/3/15-29/3/15 Admitted to Egyptian Hospital Port Said, rejoined Hood Bn. 9/4/15-30/11/15 to 2nd (RN) Field Ambulance Septic forefinger General Debility, rejoined Hood Bn. 6/12/15-6/2/17 DD.
  
  Tyneside Z/631
  
  In a letter to Marsh's sister, his Company Commander wrote:- "Hood Battn. BEF 8/3/17. Dear Miss Marsh, I regret that absence from the battalion for several weeks has prevented me from writing to you sooner about your brother. It was with sincere sorrow that I learned that he had died of wounds received on the 6th Feb. In your bereavement I offer heartfelt sympathy. You have reason to be proud of the part he has taken in the war. He proved himself steady and reliable at all times and his fearlessness did much to steady up new men joining the company. Again expressing sympathy, I remain, Yours Faithfully, J.W.Morrison Lieut." [Lieutenant Morrison was killed at Gavrelle 23/4/17] ; Now buried in a joint grave with London Z/4466 AB A.A. Cook, Nelson Bn. DOW 6/2/17 ; A Miner ; b.12/4/1896 ; Next-of-Kin & home address: Father, Charles, 1 Forrest Place, Shiremoor, Backworth.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by GeoMax (U2100830) on Wednesday, 1st July 2009

  JMB, thank you for not only your prompt reply but the wealth of information you have supplied, it is actually far more than I thought I might receive considering the nature and time of the events.
  
  Would you also be kind enough to give me links to the various quotes you have given me? I'd like to take screen prints or whatever.
  
  I must say, as I was not expecting the quality of information you have provided I was actually a little taken back and felt several unexpected emotions when reading how he died and the letter from his leiutenant to his sister informing her of his death.
  
  I say unexpected emotions because he died such a long time ago and I've never heard any stories about him from older family members (I'm lucky enough to remember is brother, my great grandfather), but I suppose my interest in family history as well as military history (G.C.S.E history field trip to Belgium & France touring the Great War's battlefields, cemetaries and museums was an eye opener at the age of 16) made this experience a little more.... closer to home???
  
  I'm quite saddend to learn of the nature of his death, he must have died in a considerable amount of pain through the injuries described.
  
  But I was also humbled by the letter sent by Lt J.W.Morrison and this extrtact in particular;
  
  "He proved himself steady and reliable at all times and his fearlessness did much to steady up new men joining the company."
  
  And furthermore knowing he himself was killed just two months later, very sad!
  
  It's funny but the information you've supplied has in fact provided me with even more questions (which I very much doubt will be answered as my grandfather would be the only person alive to have any clue and he's now in his mid 80's and gets upset very easily when I ask him about our family)!
  
  I wonder if Lt J.W.Morrison wrote what he did as a standard letter to every fallen commrade's family/nok or if it was very personal and meant what he wrote?
  
  I now wonder which of his sisters the letter was addressed to and why, considering my great great grandfather Charlie was the next of kin?
  
  Why be burried in a multiple grave? was this because the field hospital was far too busy at that time? He obviously wasnt burried in pieces as so many poor souls were as he must have been alive to warrant extraction to a field hospital in the first place?
  
  Anyway, I really appreciate your help, the information you have provided is more than I hoped for!!!!!!!!!
  
  

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Thursday, 2nd July 2009

  I got the record from Ancestry which is a subscription service for family history but it is available on several sites.
  
  If you do a websearch on "The Jack Clegg Memorial Database of Royal Naval Division Casualties of The Great War" you will find lots of references to it and it is available on several sites though none free.
  
  It might be possible to get a copy of the original letter from the officer if The National Archives hold it.
  
  MB
  

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by LeamBull (U3889658) on Saturday, 4th July 2009

  Here is the link to his details at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website:
  
  

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by GeoMax (U2100830) on Sunday, 5th July 2009

  JMB - thanks again, do you think it would be worth my while signing up to Ancestory? Baring in mind I'm trying to do a family tree and all!
  
  LeamBull, thanks for the link!

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by GeoMax (U2100830) on Sunday, 5th July 2009

  Message posted by LeamBull
  
  Here is the link to his details at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website: www.cwgc.org/search/...
  
  -----------------------------------------------
  
  Have you any idea what this means? I can't make sense of it. I know he had two brothers, Thomas the eldest and my Great Grandfather Issac, the youngest!
  
  Additional information: Brother of A. A. Thirewell, of Newcastle-on-Tyne.

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Sunday, 5th July 2009

  You are probably best asking in the Family History board for advice. There are basically two alternatives Ancestry and Findmypast, both have advantages and disadvantages. Ancestry have all the censuses 1841 to 1901, FMP have them all but 1851 and 1901 are not complete. But then FMP transcribe most of the fields so you can search by address.
  
  You can do a lot of work using free sources, there are a few websites with tips for "Newbies" so worth looking around.
  
  
  
  

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by GeoMax (U2100830) on Monday, 6th July 2009

  JMB, I'll take your advice! Thanks again.

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Monday, 6th July 2009

  ROOTSCHAT is probably the friendliest site where you are most likely to get a reply. ROOTSWEB have a huge range of message boards and mailing lists covering every topic and locality, some are quieter than others and some are more helpful than others. Post a few messages and you should start to get some help and advice, better than here because people can contact you direct if necessary.
  
  

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