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History's most succesful war time spies!

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Messages: 1 - 40 of 40
  • Message 1.

    Posted by travellingmac (U5675212) on Wednesday, 24th June 2009

    Hi all,

    Was just wondering who has been the 10 most succesful war time spies down through history having the greatest outcome over a battle/war whilst remaining in the shadows. The most obvious that springs to mind is 'Garbo' for the mis-information regarding the Normandy landings. Your thoughts???

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  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Wednesday, 24th June 2009

    What about the guy who was able to assure Stalin that it would be safe to transfer the divisions guarding the eastern Soviet Union to help in the defence of Stalingrad? Unfortunately I can't recall his name, but his action was of critical importance to the outcome of WW2.

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by U3280211 (U3280211) on Wednesday, 24th June 2009

    How about:-
    Kim Philby,
    Klaus Fuchs,
    Theodore Hall,
    David Greenglass,
    Alan Nunn May,
    The Rosenbergs.

    They gave the Russians more than they could have dared to hope for in their wildest dreams.

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by Parti-NG-ton Blue (U13898629) on Wednesday, 24th June 2009

    Surely the most successful spies are still unknown because they were so good

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Thursday, 25th June 2009

    What about the guy who was able to assure Stalin that it would be safe to transfer the divisions guarding the eastern Soviet Union to help in the defence of Stalingrad? Unfortunately I can't recall his name, but his action was of critical importance to the outcome of WW2.



    Richard Sorge

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  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Thursday, 25th June 2009

    What about the guy who was able to assure Stalin that it would be safe to transfer the divisions guarding the eastern Soviet Union to help in the defence of Stalingrad? Unfortunately I can't recall his name, but his action was of critical importance to the outcome of WW2. Richard Sorge Sorge was arrested in October of 1941 and had no influence on Stalingrad whatsoever. This is true that his mission was to monitor and facilitate the deflection of Japanese military away from the Soviet Union. The Khruschev era Soviet historians claim that he gave Stalin the exact date of the start of Barbarossa, but this claim is as suggestive as it is doubtful. Not only this type of information was beyond the scope of his mission, the GRU ring he was part of was being purged by Stalin at about the same time, and he obviously had been considered compromised.

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  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 26th June 2009

    I think LairigGhru probably meant Moscow rather than Stalingrad but the basic gist was understood.

    Besides - the fact that Moscow was not abandoned in 1941, as it had been in 1812, meant that the subsequent Soviet counter-offensives (at Moscow in December 1941 and at Stalingrad in November 1942) both benefitted from Sorge's information. Had Moscow been abandoned then organising the Stalingrad counter-offensive the following year would have been much more problematic.

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  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Friday, 26th June 2009

    Yes - I'm sure you must be right and my memory was at fault here. Many thanks.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Friday, 26th June 2009

    Besides - the fact that Moscow was not abandoned in 1941, as it had been in 1812, meant that the subsequent Soviet counter-offensives (at Moscow in December 1941 and at Stalingrad in November 1942) both benefitted from Sorge's information. Had Moscow been abandoned then organising the Stalingrad counter-offensive the following year would have been much more problematic. I find it difficult to connect the dots here. Sorge was arrested in October of 1941 by the Japanese. Much earlier than that all his chain of command in GRU had been purged by Stalin, while Sorge himself had declined to come back to Moscow as he had been directed, for he quite obviously knew that not to be good for his health. Moscow counter offensive occured in December of 1941, and Stalingrad would not begin for another year. These events were separated not only by time, but also by millions of conscripts drafted into the Red Army. Besides, even before Barbarossa began, in mid-June of 1941, the core of all Soviet forces East of Ural mountains had been formed into two armies (16th and 29th from the top of my head) and shipped to East Poland.

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  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 26th June 2009

    it probably wasnt the 4 that were landed on Romney Marsh then lol


    On the 3rd of September 1940, four German spies landed near the town on the coast between Hythe and Dungeness, but were soon caught. It would seem they were ill trained, with only one able to speak English. One of the German infiltrators was arrested in a local pub, the Rising Sun (owned by Clifford Cole), at 9.30 am, because he wanted to buy a drink, and locals would have known the pub did not open until 10.00 am. This suspicious behaviour at the time tipped off a local RAF officer, and the visitor failed to produce a required permit permitting him to travel freely along the coastline, and was handed over to the local Police.


    it could have been easier - they could have tried to buy a bible on a Sunday

    st

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  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Thursday, 2nd July 2009

    A fascinating spy I read about recently was code-named ZigZag ,his real name was Eddie Chapman and he seemed quite successfull as double agent signing up with the Abwer and then joining the XX crew after parachuting into England.
    A very adventurous, dangerous and ultimately depressive existance for him during WW2.
    How effective were they in the world wars and the cold war seems to be in question.
    (Fodder for good movies though!)

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by delrick53 (U13797078) on Thursday, 2nd July 2009

    Edward VIII,

    Whatever he did it didn't prevent him living a champagne lifestyle safe in the knowledge that his wealth was secure and his wrongdoings would never come to light because of the detrimental effect it would have had on the Royals.
    He's still being protected today, for the same reason, and by the same people - the British Government.

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 12.

    Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Thursday, 2nd July 2009

    Was he the safebreaker who did such a wonderful job for his country in WW2 that he was allowed to carry on with his old trade with virtual immunity from prosecution after the war?

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Thursday, 2nd July 2009

    Lairighru
    That would be him, but If I remember correctly he was dropped from XX because of indiscretions (bragging to his buddies about his spy connections)
    His WW2 record though was amazing and the police ignored his prewar illegal activities.
    After the war I think he and his wife ran a pub somewhere and lived happily everafter?

    Ian

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Saturday, 4th July 2009

    Thanks for this info.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Saturday, 4th July 2009

    Partington Blue.... ehehehehehe nice!!!!

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Sixtus Beckmesser (U9635927) on Wednesday, 8th July 2009

    Not a spy as such, more a spymaster, but I would make a big call for Sir Francis Walsingham. Without him, we might be speaking spanish right now!

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by MB (U177470) on Wednesday, 8th July 2009

    You could perhaps argue that we might never know the identity or even existence of the most successful spy because he or she was never discovered.

    Just look at the number of people who worked at Bletchley Park and kept it secret from their family until their death. These were often in quite lowly positions so could be "spies" working at a higher level who did the same.


    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Thursday, 9th July 2009

    Sixtus_Beckmesser,

    Not a spy as such, more a spymaster, but I would make a big call for Sir Francis Walsingham. Without him, we might be speaking spanish right now!

    ¿ϳé?

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Sixtus Beckmesser (U9635927) on Thursday, 9th July 2009

    Very droll, Camry! smiley - winkeye

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by vesturiiis (U13688567) on Friday, 10th July 2009

    Holy crap Batman
    I/we forgot about the famous man called Intrepid
    Sir William Stephenson
    A lot of his life during WW2 seems controversial
    as to how really involved he was but his life story is fascinating.
    Born to a very poor existance in Winnipeg of
    Icelandic heritage (close to my heart)
    Left for WW1, a decorated pilot and later in the 30's became well to do industialist.
    Somehow fell into cohoots with Sir W Churchill pre-war and nervously watched the expansion in Germany first hand. During the war became a conduit for British interests and eyes for Churchill (out of New York). Worked with Donovan and progressed to leader of the "spy" agency in North America as U.S. joined the war effort. After WW2 oversaw a Russian defector (Kosinsky??) who spilled the beans on what the Ruskies were really up to---Cold War.
    A Man Called Intrepid is one book on him
    thanks Ian

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Friday, 10th July 2009

    Major William Martin, although his role was mainly passive.

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Sunday, 12th July 2009

    The most successful spy of all time has been already mentioned. He was Richard Sorge and his group, which comprised of two Japanese Ozaki and Miyagi, a Yugoslav Communist, and a German.

    Ozaki came from a noble Japanese family and had penetrated the Cabinet of Prince Konoye, the Japanese Prime Minster,who often asked Ozaki to review the minutes of Japanese cabinet meetings. Thus Stalin often was able to read those minutes even before the Japanese Cabinet ministers.

    Miyagi had strong contacts among the Japanese military, and eventually was able to inform Stalin about the date of Pearl Harbour, information that was never seriously passed on to Roosevelt.

    Sorge was a German communist, who in Japan had transformed himself to a Nazi, with apparent contacts at the highest levels in Germany. He thus became a close confidant of the German ambassador to Japan, and often wrote his dispatches to Ribbentrop. Thus Sorge was able to in form Stalin about the date of Operation Barbarossa correct to with a couple of days of the event.

    one interesting fact; The Russians did not even have to pay for all this information, as Sorge had established a self-financing operation, based on a Company established by the other German in the group, whose name I forget. It may have been Klaus.

    Tas

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Sunday, 12th July 2009

    That Richard Sorge and his espionage ring had accurate information about the attack on Pearl Harbour has often been claimed, but has never been proven. Sorge and his ring were arrested before a clear decision to attack Pearl Harbour was made, so it is very unlikely... They were certainly aware that Japan and the USA were on the verge of war, but so was anyone who bothered to read a newspaper. Speculation that the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbour was quite common in these years, especially among those aware (as Sorge probably was) of the precedent of the attack on Port Arthur.

    Sorge did predict the German attack on the USSR with an accuracy of a few days. This would have been one of the most valuable pieces of information ever gathered by a spy, but for the fact that it already was the worst kept secret in the world. Stalin was repeatedly warned of the pending attack, not just by the British but also by German diplomats (either out of opposition to Nazism or in the hope of averting a disastrous war). The deployment of the German forces to the Eastern border did not go unnoticed, nor did German spy flights over Russia. Stalin ignored all of this, declaring that it was all disinformation generated by those who sought to provoke war between the USSR and Germany.

    Sorge's actual impact on events was therefore much lower than his work might have deserved.

    Not a spy in the classical sense, but probably one of the most successful people ever to work in intelligence, was the American cryptologist William F. Friedman. When the USA entered World War I in 1917, Friedman was instrumental in rebuilding American code-breaking efforts and he remained active until after WWII. The most impressive known achievement of his team was the decipherment of the Japanese 'Purple' code and the reconstruction of the machine, without ever having seen one or information about its design.

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Sunday, 12th July 2009

    Sorge was a German communist, who in Japan had transformed himself to a Nazi, with apparent contacts at the highest levels in Germany. Sorge was a GRU agent, an "illegal" as the agents with fake identities were called. His GRU chief was Berzin, who had been purged by Stalin months before Sorge was arrested by the Japanese.

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by vera1950 (U9920163) on Sunday, 12th July 2009

    may I suggest a certain Robert Digby who it is said could have been a spy-although he did end up being shot.
    Although the posssibilty has been mooted there has been no oficial confirmation or denial.

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 25.

    Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Sunday, 12th July 2009

    May be that is why Stalin did not pay enough attention to this brilliant spy ring.

    In espionage you get pieces of information from all kinds of sources. It is rare that you get your entire information directly; rather you get bits and pieces and you have to be clever enough to connect the dots. The best spies are their own analysts.

    So Sorge's colleague Miyagi was able to piece together information about Pearl Harbour.

    Tas

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Sunday, 12th July 2009

    May be that is why Stalin did not pay enough attention to this brilliant spy ring Stalin paid very close attention to all of his spy rings, Berzin's being just one of many. As someone pointed out, it wasn't so brilliant after all since everybody in the world knows about how it got busted. Sorge's mission was to facilitate the deflection of the Japanese war effort away from the Soviet Union and toward the United States. This mission was accomplished, with all pertinent information and the corroborating evidence provided for Stalin to verify. His alleged warnings about Barbarossa were not corroborated and therefore dismissed along with the vast amount of other - often contradictory - intelligence. For that, see another GRU operative Vladimir Rezun (AKA Viktor Suvorov)'s assessment of Sorge.

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by merlin (U10448262) on Tuesday, 14th July 2009

    There appears to be a mismatch between the title of the thread and then the details!!
    The title refers to successful German spies, while the body refers to spies in general.

    In WW2 Britain, in a sense - we didn't need spies, because we were able to read German's 'electronic' mail via enigma - not every message, but enough to make a difference.
    With SOE we were able to 'tap-in' to information from occuppied Europe.
    We had the Spitfire & Mosquito PR aircraft to give us a picture of what was happening on the continent - e.g. V1 & V2.

    While, Germany - for all their so called efficiency, were the amateurs - unprepared, all they had was their 'Y' Service, and wishful thinking!
    With the British able to supply them with whatever misinformation, they wanted via the Double-agents (co-operate or be shot).
    They were though a couple of exceptions.
    I think the British Embassy in Turkey was infiltrated, with documents being photograghed and sent to the Germans.
    And, I believe Rommel had an intelligence source in Cairo that was giving him information.


    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Sixtus Beckmesser (U9635927) on Tuesday, 14th July 2009

    "The title refers to successful German spies, while the body refers to spies in general."

    Er...no, Catman. The title of the thread is "History's most successful war time spies" and the starter of the thread makes it clear that we are talking about more than just Germans:

    "Was just wondering who has been the 10 most succesful war time spies down through history"

    the term "wartime" means more than WW1 and 2!

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by MB (U177470) on Tuesday, 14th July 2009

    Bletchley Park was very important but so were other sources. Bletchley only intercepted a fraction of traffic and there many gaps in the decoding.

    Also no one likes to rely completely on decoded information because it is so easy to be misled by the enemy if he knows that his codes are being read. They like some independent sources which can confirm some aspects of it. There was also a danger that the Germans could realise how much the British were decoding and tighten up their procedures which could stop it overnight.

    The German Y Service was quite effective, they were able to decode some British Admiralty and Merchant Navy codes at times. They got a lot from an idiot American diplomat in Cairo who sent details of British operations back to Washington. Rommel's tactical wireless interception was very effective.

    MB

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Tuesday, 14th July 2009

    The big difference between the German cryptanalytic services (emphatically plural, with little cooperation between them) and Bletchley Park was that BP and Allied intelligence analysts assembled an insightful picture of German dispositions and strategy. The German services focused almost exclusively on tactical codes of short-term benefit, but this left large gaps. For example, they failed to predict any of the Allied invasions of North Africa and Europe.

    To some extent this was the logical result of the German confidence in Enigma. They knew Allied high-level encryption systems such as Typex were more sophisticated than the Enigma machine, and Enigma was supposedly unbreakable, ergo it wasn't worth making an effort to break Allied high-level codes, so they didn't. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Worse, every indication that the Allies WERE reading Enigma messages (and there were quite a few over the years) was dismissed by German cryptologists because they could not bring themselves to believe that the Allies could decode Enigma fast enough or accurately enough to be tactically useful. They had a blind spot for the fact that even if Enigma messages were deciphered slowly or incompletely, the result might be of considerable value to the enemy, and could of course provide an useful starting point for further deciphering.

    It is true that the breaking of Allied tactical codes, from weather codes to convoy codes, brought in a rich haul of information in the early years of the war. But it declined steadily as the Allies improved their systems and procedures. The rather weak diplomatic code used by the hapless US consul in Cairo (Col. Bonner F. Fellers) was duly replaced by a better one.

    The poor quality of US diplomatic codes was a running gag in the years between the wars. Presumably 'Black', the code used by Fellers, was already an improvement over 'Grey', of which the rumour went that the Japanese had courteously sent back a codebook that had accidentally fallen into their hands, because they already had one.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Tuesday, 16th February 2010

    Sorge did predict the German attack on the USSR with an accuracy of a few days. This would have been one of the most valuable pieces of information ever gathered by a spy, but for the fact that it already was the worst kept secret in the world. Apart from Suvorov's earlier dispelling of this myth, Mark Solonin has recently written even the better one:
    ‘…The press-core boss of the German Embassy in Tokyo journalist Richard Sorge (AKA Soviet spy Ramzay) was even further away – both literally and figuratively - from the vault with “Hitler’s Secrets.”
    Strangely enough, this basic fact is yet to be understood by wide masses of Russian [only?] historians and publicists. Even by June 2006, for example, such masterpieces as the following are still being printed: “In December 1940, Hitler made the decision to invade the USSR, and just two weeks later, Sorge sent copies of the corresponding documents to Moscow.”
    On December 18, 1940, Hitler authorized Directive 21 (Plan Barbarossa). The Directive began with the following wording: “German armed forces must be ready to defeat Soviet Russia during a short-term campaign even before the war against England is concluded.” Must be ready. It further said, “I will give the order about strategic deployment of the armed forces against the Soviet Union IF NECESSARY [highlighted by Solonin] eight weeks before the planned start of the operations.” No precise date of the beginning of the war was established in the “Plan Barbarossa.” Nine copies of the document were printed, of which six would remain in Hitler’s vault until the end of the war, and three would be given to the armed forces High Command.
    Usual, i.e., very strict secrecy requirements were applied to this document. Directive 21 concluded with the following lines: “I expect for the High Command to VERBALLY [highlighted by Solonin] brief me about their further intentions in regard to this Directive.” So, why would the German Ambassador in Tokyo, who had no business in the development of operational plans, receive written documents, while the High Command verbally briefed Hitler face to face? And what for? For Richard Sorge’s convenience?
    Neither in December 1940, nor in the days and weeks preceding the war, Ramsay could inform Moscow about anything more definitive than rumors circulating around the Embassy:
    (May 21, 1941) ”…New German representatives just arrived from Berlin state that the war between Germany and USSR can begin at the end of May, because they have been ordered to return to Berlin by that time. However, they also stated that this year the danger may pass…”
    (June 1, 1941) “…The expectations of the beginning of the German-Soviet war around June 15 are exclusively based on the information brought by Colonel Scholl from Berlin, where he had left for Bangkok on May 6. In Bangkok, he will assume the post of the military attaché… Scholl stated that Wehrmacht’s left flank would deliver the strongest strike…”
    (June 17, 1941) “…German courier told the military attaché that he was convinced about the delay of the war against the USSR, possibly until the end of June. The military attaché does not know if the war would begin...” So, what was Stalin supposed to believe here?
    Sometimes, unwillingness to see the obvious reaches completely absurd levels. Marshall Zhukov (the Red Army Chief of Staff on the eve of the war) writes in his memoires:
    “…on May 6, 1941, People’s Commissar of the Navy Admiral N. G. Kuznetsov sent Stalin a note, ‘The Navy attaché in Berlin Captain 1st Rank Vorontsov informs…that, according to one German officer from Hitler’s staff, the Germans are preparing the invasion of the USSR via Finland, Baltic and Romania by May 14. Simultaneously, massive air assaults of Moscow and Leningrad, as well as paratrooper landings in borderline centers are planned…”
    This message contains not a word of truth. It is standard for the spring of 1941 German disinformation – main thrust on flanks; massive air assaults of Moscow; intentionally wrong launch date. So what about Zhukov? Even many years after the end of the war he is either incapable of understanding that he was looking at the German fabrication, or he is brazenly fooling unwitting readers: “Data contained in this document was exclusively valuable. However, Admiral Kuznetsov’s conclusions did not correspond to the facts he had himself brought up, and thus misinformed I. V. Stalin. ‘I presume,’ stated N. G. Kuznetsov’s note, ‘that this information is false [exactly – M. Solonin] and is intentionally suggestive along this path [highly probable – M. Solonin] in order to test reaction by the USSR…’”
    Hitler set the fateful date of the invasion (June 22) and relayed it to the Wehrmacht High Command only on April 30, 1941. Prior to that, no ‘sources’ could possibly inform Stalin about this most important Hitler’s secret, simply because Hitler did not himself know when he would start the war against the USSR. Moreover – and it is extremely important to point out – April 30 still was not the “point of no return.” Of course, now we know that June 22 would be the real date of the invasion, but in May of 1941 much could change many times… German railroads were imposed the regime of “maximum military throughput” on May 23. It was a very important milestone in the aggregate complex of actions involved in strategic deployment; and, as far as I know, the Soviet intelligence missed just that.
    Finally, on June 10, Wehrmacht High Command relayed the following order to the army commanders:
    “1. It is suggested to consider June 22 as the Operation Barbarossa Day D.
    2. In case of the postponement of this date, the corresponding decision will be made no later than on June 18. The direction of the main thrust remains secret…”
    Only on June 18 – the day after Stalin had put down the [infamous] obscene resolution on a routine report by the ‘Corporal’ – the decision about the invasion of the USSR and the date of the operation was relayed to the tactical level commanders (division and regiment level commanders).' (Mark Solonin, False History of the Great War, 2008)

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  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by baz (U14258304) on Wednesday, 17th February 2010

    In David O'Donaghue's "Hitler's Irish Voices", there's the amusing tale of an Irish guy who was in the Channel Isles potato picking, when the Germans invaded. He and his compatriots, as neutrals, were offered well-paid work in the Reich, and this particular chap( I can't recall his name)was noticed and asked to parachute into Eire,on a mission.
    The Irish authorities immedately started looking for him and put a £500 reward on his head, which his father took up.
    His son was imprisoned for a short time and the reward money his dad had saved for him bought him a pub on his release.

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 17th February 2010

    The Irish authorities immedately started looking for him and put a £500 reward on his head, which his father took up.
    His son was imprisoned for a short time and the reward money his dad had saved for him bought him a pub on his release.
    This scheme would probably not work in other places, where very few of those chaps would be released alive.

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by baz (U14258304) on Wednesday, 17th February 2010

    This scheme would probably not work in other places, where very few of those chaps would be released alive.

    True, Suvorovetz. My post was meant as a light-hearted aside. We should never forget the courage and sacrifice of those who fought against tyranny.

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 17th February 2010

    We should never forget the courage and sacrifice of those who fought against tyranny. I sure would not ever want to be in Sorge's shoes, to be honest with you, baz. He was stuck between Stalin, the Japanese and Hitler. Even before he was executed by the Japanese, his entire GRU chain of command, as well as his wife, I believe, had been purged by Stalin. The chap never had a chance.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by baz (U14258304) on Wednesday, 17th February 2010

    The strange thing is, the USSR issued postage stamps with Sorge's image on them. What an example of doublethink.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 17th February 2010

    The strange thing is, the USSR issued postage stamps with Sorge's image on them. What an example of doublethink. I believe, Sorge - of all the countless and nameless GRU and NKVD agents world-wide - was resurrected from the dead to perpetuate the history of the war rewritten and pushed by Khrushchev and Zhukov in the 60s. That's all it was to it.

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 39.

    Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Friday, 19th February 2010

    I would have thought the answer to this is that if we've heard of them, they weren't that successful.

    Surely the essence of spying is to infiltrate some hostile territory, relay lots of good info about that they are doing, and then escape back again, without being caught.

    Although I'm not sure it's spying, but I would have thought Major Martin from Operation Mincemeat was pretty good at putting people on the wrong track.

    Report message40

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