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Attack by Luftwaffe nightfighters on RAF Bombers March 3/4th 1945

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by robert382 (U6596743) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  According to the North-East Diary of the WW2 period, published on the internet, during the night of 3rd 4th March 1945, approx 70 nightfighters of the Luftwaffe that had followed an RAF Bomber Command raid on Kamen in Germany (Fischer-Tropsch factory), at 0130 started to attack Halifax Bombers returning to their bases in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, without alerting radar warnings. . According to estimates during a 3 hour period on that night, some 70 Allied Bombers were destroyed on the ground by the luftwaffe, and other military and civilian targets were hit. Why has there not been a documentary on this episode, which I understand was made on the specific orders of FeldMarshall Goering in order to satisfy Hitler of his allegiance at that late stage of the war.
  It would be interesting if Dan Snow could feature this episode on the One Show.
  Robert 382

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• Message 2

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  Posted by MB (U177470) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  Both sides did intruder attacks on and with bombers returning home.
  
  Is the "70 nightfighters" and estimate from the time or a later figure confirmed through Luftwaffe records?
  
  
  

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• Message 3

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  Posted by robert382 (U6596743) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  soory I dont know the answer to that, only the estimates given in the NE Diary of "incidents".
  I should really very much like to have a word with Feldmarshall Herman Goering for his audacity in sanctioning that tit for tat, so late in the war. And to think he was enjoying the sophisticated wines in his hunting Schloss at Fuschl in Austria,( yes, I have visited there myself, now a 5 star hotel) . I wonder what the Luftwaffe thought of him, not to mention the crews of Bomber Command .

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• Message 4

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  Posted by MB (U177470) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  Try asking here, they tend to be knowledgeable on WWII RAF subjects.
  
  
  
  MB

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  This was 'Operation Gisela' carried out on the night of 3rd-4th March 1945, whilst British reports lead one to believe 70-80 aircraft took part German records actually show that 142 Ju-88G's took part, they were from the following units:
  
  I/NJG2, II/NJG2, III/NJG2, III/NJG3, IV/NJG3, III/NJG4 & III/NJG5
  
  The attack lasted two and a half hours and in that time, 13 Halifaxes, 9 Lancasters, 1 B-17 and a Mosquito were shot down and more than 20 others escaped with varying degrees of damage. During the bombing and strafing of ground targets 17 civilians were killed and 12 seriously injured.
  
  Of the German aircraft, 5 at most, were lost in combat over England, 8 crews were missing, 3 had crashed and been killed, 6 crews baled out when lost or short on fuel and 11 aircraft had either crashed or been damaged on landing.
  
  Further information on German night intruders can be found in the book 'Intruders over Britain: the Luftwaffe Night Fighter Offensive 1940-45' by Simon W. Parry

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• Message 6

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  Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  Robert
  
  Steelers seems to have the details. I must admit I had never heard of it, but I looked it up. In "The Fight Avails", the general history written by the RAF Official Historian Hilary St.G Saunders, the operation is described as "very successful, 19 aircraft of Bomber Command..being shot down after they crossed the English coast".
  
  The RAF Air Staff study "The Rise and Fall of the German Air Force", prepared using Luftwaffe records immediately after the war, describes it thus:
  
  "..in suitable conditions of the night March 3rd-4th, 140 night-fighters took off to attack Bomber Command bases ranging from Northumberland to Oxfordshire. Rather less than 100 aircraft succeeded in penetrating overland [so there's the difference between your diary and Steer's book]...carrying out widespread attacks on airfields and shooting down 22 bombers over their bases ...but although some degree of success was attained, over 20 aircraft were lost and no attempt was made to maintain or intensify this activity, which was never again repeated."
  
  I think that is the reason why this hasn't had a programme dedicated to it. German intruder operations were a small detail in the overall night battle - Saunders notes that there were very few in 1943, none in 1944 and only two (3/4 MAr and 4/5 Mar) in 1945. Both these authors ascribe this lack of activity as being due to Hitler's personal intervention; he doubted the efficacy of such sorties, and preferred that bombers be shot down over the Reich, where the populace could see the wreckage.
  
  Neither RAF source refers to the numbers of aircraft destroyed on the ground, but in the context of 1945, even 70 was not significant - they could be replaced within 24 hours. The losses would not have affected overall operations.
  
  Not a significant event, but might make an interesting documentary at this distance.
  
  LW

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• Message 7

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  Posted by robert382 (U6596743) on Tuesday, 19th May 2009

  thanks to "Long Weekend" and others who have given me some useful info on this event in 1945. I will try and ask Dan Snow if he can do a programme on this, could be interesting.
  
  Robert 382

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• Message 8

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  Posted by MB (U177470) on Tuesday, 19th May 2009

  It could probably only be made into a TV programme if enough survivors could be found to tell their story.
  
  CGI simulations of night-fighter attacks would probably not make very good TV though could be cheap as there would be little to see.
  
  

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