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South Georgia and "Humphrey"

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by VF (U5759986) on Thursday, 14th May 2009

  Did anybody see Channel 5's documentry on the aborted SAS mission to retake South Georgia?
  
  Absolutely fascinating programme,the crews had balls of steel and a little bit of luck.Made me look at the Wessex III in a different light though!
  
  
  Vf

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 14th May 2009

  "...the crews had balls of steel..."
  
  
  Is that permitted under the terms of the Geneva Convention ?

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by VF (U5759986) on Thursday, 14th May 2009

  
  
  Probably not Tim,probably not!
  
  But going back in a duff helicopter,with a history of engine failure knowm within that type of craft,carring over a ton of extra weight it wasnt designed for in zero visability takes courage!
  
  
  Vf

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 14th May 2009

  Yes.
  
  I only watched a few minutes, when they did the drop off on the glacier the first time, being a bit busy at the time. Now I know why I am a civilian.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by delrick53 (U13797078) on Thursday, 14th May 2009

  VirtuaF,
  
  Haven't seen the programme but I've read about it and spoken to some of the Marines who were there.
  
  The SAS were told by Marine Artic Warfare experts that it was stupid to even attempt it, bit this advice was ignored.
  SAS arrogance nearly cost them their own lives and the lives of the pilots and crewmen who managed to rescue them.

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  i watched this,and wondered just what the S A S were thinking. I liked the reply to the S A S remark. "They won't expect us to come that way." But there was no doubting the bravery of the aircrews.

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by delrick53 (U13797078) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  GrumpyFred,
  
  I watched it this morning, and having worked with many Navy aircrews during the 70's, their bravery came as no surprise. Some would call them reckless, but in many situations that can mean the same thing as 'heroic'.
  
  The whole South Georgia situation and the near-disaster was largely the result of 'big hands on small maps' back in the UK. There were men there on site who knew the terrain, and what was and wasn't possible. They were ignored and the SAS took pole position.
  Had the Navy air crews been lesser men, the SAS would have become part of the glacier, along with their 'beloved' Armalites.

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  Having flown in the back of helecopter flown by a Royal Marine, I have nothing but respect for chopper pilots flying off a moving ship.
  
  G F

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  Could somebody explain though why instead of making hight over the open sea, the helecopters made landfall the followed the glazier, which was a shade dangerous.

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  GF
  
  Apart from the need to maintain surprise, the cloud base was very low, indeed too low. When Ian Stanley made his rescue, the maximum height he could get was 3000 feet.
  
  I didn't see the programme, but I hope the point was made that they were very, very lucky to have a helicopter pilot of Stanley's skill and experience on Antrim.
  
  LW

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  They made remarks about bad weather, but only when flying up the glazier. As for surprise, I would have thought that in those conditions, you could have flown a squadron of Vulcan Bombers over S G, complete with marching bands, and nobody would have heard them.
  
  G F

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  GF
  
  A squadron of Vulcans, yes. But not a helicopter; couldn't operate in cloud, particularly cloud busy dumping snow. It was the blizzard that did for the mission, as it was.
  
  I'm rather fond of Max Hasting's comment that the weather defied human reason.
  
  LW

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• Message 13

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by VF (U5759986) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  I dont know if I misunderstood or misheard,but I got the impression that that "Humphrey" was the only one with a decent radar set,did I imagine it??
  
  What I never realised that Huphrey was also the aircraft to fire in anger.From memeory I think it was the "Santa Fe" a "Guppy" class subamarine and didnt they use an AS12 missile????
  
  At first during the programme I couldnt work out what the little red circles were on "Humphrey" but I assume they were highlighting the results of small arms fire.
  
  I think extra kudos for the pilots of the Wessex is deserved for landing on Antrim at all! I think the "County" class were the last "beautiful" ships built for the RN,but that helicopter pad with a stonking great radar set sat at the end of it (for "Seaslug" I assume) couldnt have made it easy (or wheeling the helicopter back in to the hanger)!
  
  My other favourite thing about the "Counties" at the Falklands" (and I think that it was actualy HMS Antrim herself)was that they tried to fire off "Seaslugs" in the hope that even if the missile didnt hit anything the booster rockets could act as a barrage! I once read that an RN officer described that the launch of "SEaslug" always got the response "F*^k me" from those who had never seen it launched!
  
  
  Regards Vf

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 13.

  Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Friday, 15th May 2009

  VF
  
  Yes, the Wessex 3 had a surface search radar, but it was supposed to be used over water, not land. The "Junglie" Wessex 5 was a pure tactical transport and didn't (like the RAF's Wessex HC.2).
  
  The helo on a County had to be folded up and trundled along the side before being parked, remarkable arrangement.
  
  Using the Sea Slug ship-to-shore wasn't such a stretch.. As Sea Slug and Sea Cat were replacing 4.5 DP guns, the RN had specified a surface-to-surface capability (although they had anti-ship rather than shore bombardment in mind). I'm told the Sea Slug had been retired by 1982, and the system was in "care-and-maintenance", but the Counties' weapons engineering departments got at least the launchers back up. Don't think there were any surface-to-air engagements, though.

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• Message 15

  , in reply to message 14.

  Posted by JB on a slippery slope to the thin end ofdabiscuit (U13805036) on Saturday, 16th May 2009

  HMS Glamorgan used her Seaslug to bombard Stanley airfield once, to no noticeable effect. HMS Antrim fired hers once under air attack as a form of heavy-gague chaff.
  
  Ian Stanley's Wessex dropeed a depth charge and let off a burst of machine gun at the surfaced submarine Santa Fe. This was, incredibly, the first armed attack on anything by a British helicopter. Later, HMS Endurance's Wasp fired the first air-launched guided missile by any UK forces. The AS12 went straight through the sub's conning tower without exploding.
  
  The Endurance Wasp crew had wanted to attack the Corvette Guerrico during the initial occupation of South Georgia, but were orderd away.
  

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