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The Bomber Boys - Patrick Bishop
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Message 1.Â
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Saturday, 10th January 2009
Just finished this book and in places it moved me to the point of tears..In truth I have read quite a bit about the Strategic Bomber Offensive in the last 5 years, and I wouldn't have gone out and bought this book for myself; but I am glad a freind lent it to me.
This is not to start a debate as to the rights and wrongs (I think Frankland covered that years ago in his authoritative work), but just to commend a good book to you, and to wonder - Would I have been able to do what they did? -
Message 2
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 12th January 2009
Sceptical Scotty,
If you're feeling up to reading a fictional account of the bomber offensive, you can't go wrong with Len Deighton's "Bomber". This is a fictional account of one single air-raid, covering the viewpoints of both the aircrew and the German civilians on the receiving end.
It's a very moving read, but I think you may have resort to Ebay to get hold of it.
Cheers -
Message 3
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Monday, 12th January 2009
Thanks DL, I dont really think I'm up to it at the moment. Its time to read something light and fluffy I think.
I think that maybe I'm just over-filled with stories/accounts of war at the moment, some better than others, some outstanding. My main interests in the genre are to do with flying as that was always my dream from a young age...to fly. I flew gliders for a number of years but thats as far as that was ever going to get.
I suppose my secondary interest in war literature has always been the back room boys, scientists, and engineers that made things happen and the stories behind those. I was the kind of boy who had a chemistry set, loved his Meccano, and built my own radios and model gliders and control-line aircraft. I found "The Night Fighters" just as fascinating, maybe even more compelling than "First Light" by Geoffrey Wellum.
all the best,
Scott -
Message 4
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Monday, 12th January 2009
ScepticalScotty,
May I therefore recommend Prof R.V. Jones's autobiographical book 'Most Secret War' - unless you've already read it, of course. -
Message 5
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Monday, 12th January 2009
Hahaha - one of my MOST treasured books mate!!! Have read it so many times its almost falling apart. That kind of stuff is fascinating to me; I remember the episode of the TV series when they flew an Anson over Rugby (I think) and found the Knickebein beam that "experts" said could not be there...that was brilliant television documentary and a great story. I suppose with my education & backround of hobbies I might just have ended up doing such a thing if I had been around in those days.
all the best,
Scott -
Message 6
Posted by petes (U3344676) on Tuesday, 13th January 2009
Scott
Although you say you’re all ‘warred out’ but I can recommend ‘Combat Crew’ by John Comer when you get back to reading about WW2 air war again. As a B-17 flight engineer and top-turret gunner, he was assigned as a B17 Flying Fortress crew member based in England, from where he participated in some of the war's toughest raids, including two assaults on the Schweinfurt ball-bearing plants. The book opens with his recent visit to Ridgewell Air Base in Cambridgeshire from where he flew his 25 missions and on to document the worst of these. A very good read with insights into the technical aspects of B17s.
If you’ve not read it, I can also recommend ‘Tail End Charlies’ by Tony Rennell & John Nichol. -
Message 7
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Wednesday, 14th January 2009
Scott, I know what you mean,
I've been doing a lot of research on individual stories from the battle of Stalingrad for the last couple of months, and it can be real hard work.
Just out of interest, where did you do your gliding? I spent many a weekend back in the 90s at RAF Bruggen getting yanked off the ground in gliders. Happy days.... -
Message 8
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Wednesday, 14th January 2009
Hi DL,
I did my gliding at the Canberra Gliding Club, in 1991-1992 and really enjoyed it. The main gliders used for training were Blaniks, but they were nearing the end of thier life and the club was looking at a Puchatz? as a replacement. I never went solo (ran out of money!) but did do quite a lot of flying, with the highlight being a 2.5 hour flight that was tiring for me but relaxing for the instructor(he just sat in the back and talked about cricket all flight!). Did about 50 flights all up, but fell short at the intensive part just before you go solo, as I could not afford to keep flying every weekend, or take a week off and do the intensive course.
Ive flown the Puchatz, Blanik, Ka-4, Twin Astir, and the Kookaburra.
Dreams of flying are over well and truly now, I have a young family, we are moving, and my wife has stopped work for a bit. My thrills are now motorcycling and kneeboard surfing, but I still keep a connection by flying; a r/c 2 metre rudder/elevator glider off the bungee when I can.
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Message 9
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Wednesday, 14th January 2009
Just to add - my wife bought me a day trying out paragliding for my 40th birthday. The choice was that or a day flying with a Kent Gliding Club.
I picked the wrong one and didn't enjoy the paragliding at all - had a terrible day (but the instructors were great blokes!). -
Message 10
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 16th January 2009
My time was all on a Twin Astir and then a Discus after soloing. I took it up after my sister won a free day's gliding at Bruggen and bottled it. I went instead and was hooked. Sadly I haven't had a single minute in the air since 1996 when I was posted to Cyprus, and the costs are out of the question when you have a family to feed!
Still, happy times....
Nowadays it's just pottering around on boats and biking. -
Message 11
Posted by Frank Parker (U7843825) on Sunday, 18th January 2009
Hi Scotty,
Is that book easy to get hold of? My dad was FE on a Lanc pathfinder lost on their final mission over Mannheim in Nov. '43. So I'd like to read it for a better insight into what he experienced.
Regards,
PiL -
Message 12
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Sunday, 18th January 2009
Which book mate? "The Bomber Boys" should be able to be obtained at any Waterstones..you should definately get it and without a doubt it will give you a good insight into your father, and all the other brave fellows like him. My late great uncle James Baldie was a navigator in the RAAF in the pacific war...a very different scene indeed.
"Most Secret War" by RV Jones might be out of print - but it is brilliant! Good insight into the technical aspects of radio navigation & bombing.
I also have a book (in a box in my mums loft in Australia...) by Air Vice Marshall Bennett, so of his life story mixed up with the story of the Pathfinders. Its a bit dry - he's a pilot not an author, but still worth reading. -
Message 13
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Monday, 19th January 2009
Plotinlaos,
I came across 'Most Secret War' in a second-hand bookshop a couple of years ago and couldn't resist buying it even though I already owned a copy. Out of respect for your father, I would like to present it to you, but this gives me the logistical problem how to achieve this without breaking the messageboard's anonymity rules. How about you giving me the address of a friend (no name needed) to whom I could post it? You could warn him/her in advance that a small parcel for "Pete" should be expected.
[Andrew Host, is this an acceptable suggestion according to the rules?] -
Message 14
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Monday, 19th January 2009
It would be wonderful if we could have some sort of forum to allow us to pass on our books. I know and understand why personal details are prohibited, but it is a shame we cannot share our book collections. I keep a lot of my own books, but I also give a lot away because sometimes they are just too good and you want everyone to read it.
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Message 15
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 19th January 2009
Sadly the "books board" got killed off a year or so ago.
I have to admit I'm a serious hoarder when it comes to books. If they're a good read, regardless of subject, I just can't get rid of them (plus I collect first editions as well, so wouldn't dare throw them out!). -
Message 16
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 17
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Monday, 19th January 2009
I'll send it on its way tomorrow. Prof Jones would have wanted this course of action because he was keenly appreciative of the sacrifices being made by the young men at the 'sharp end' while 'back-room boys' like him remained relatively safe - albeit carrying out a crucially important function in the war effort.
Happy reading. -
Message 18
Posted by Frank Parker (U7843825) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
I am looking forward to it! I will let you know, via this thread, when it arrives. Once again, many, many thanks.
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Message 19
Posted by Frank Parker (U7843825) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Decided it was time I checked out Lairig Ghru on t'internet. I gather it's a pass in the Scottish Cairngorms. (Why did I not know that already? you ask. Pass, I respond!) So I assume you are in or from the Highlands.
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Message 20
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Not as far as I know, but I do have a Scottish surname so my remote ancestors must have come from there. I love Scotland and have happy memories of the Lairig Ghru down the years (an immense pass cutting through the Cairngorms). After watching Nick Crane's prog this evening I reckon I'll feel the same way about Ireland when I finally get there!
Book safely dispatched at about noon today, so keep a lookout for it. It's quite a read, as ScepticalScotty has attested.
All the best. -
Message 21
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 27th January 2009
Scotty/Plotinlaois
Bit late, but I have just come across my copy of Bruce Lewis's "Aircrew". Lewis was a wartime W/Op on Lancasters with 101 Sqn. His book covers much the same ground as Bishop's, but he organises it into a section on each crew position, which makes it useful for anyone interested in a specific role (alas, no index though). And it has his own account, which emphasises how dangerous flying training was, let alone ops.
Bennet's book is very interesting especially the latter part which contains his prolonged whinge about how 8 Group was sidelined. He can't quite bring himself to admit that Harris did the dirty on him, so he puts all the blame on Cochrane at 5 Group. The assassination of Cochrane begins with the standard senior officer memoir phrase "[Cochrane] is, of course my great friend..." Monty was fond of using that one as well.
Alfred Price's "Instruments of Darkness" is another fine book on the electronic measures/counter-measures war. The bit about how the electronics in a downed KG100 pathfinder were ruined by Royal Naval intransigience is tragic but beautifully told! -
Message 22
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Tuesday, 27th January 2009
Right mate - I'll have a look out for both of them - have just finished "The Reader" and I'm re-reading my Rumpole omnibus in memory of both Mortimer & McKern, so when I have done that I'll get stuck into them!
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Message 23
Posted by MB (U177470) on Tuesday, 27th January 2009
R V Jones wrote a second book "Reflections on Intelligence" which went into a bit more detail on some of the things mentioned in "Most Secret War".
Worth having a read at that after "Most Secret War".
MB -
Message 24
Posted by Frank Parker (U7843825) on Saturday, 31st January 2009
Hi LG. Book arrived beginning of the week. Son brought it over this afternoon. Looks like it will be a good read. Many, many thanks for your generosity.
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Message 25
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Saturday, 31st January 2009
Relieved it made it. I was a bit worried about posting it without a 'sender' marking. Also, Sellotape refused to stick to the brown paper so the parcel was totally reliant on the string. Hope you get a lot out of it.
I read 'Reflections on Intelligence' a dozen or so years ago and agree with JMB that that is also a worthwhile read. One thing he describes is the centimetric radar that was put aboard the U-boat-seeking Catalinas. It had the feature that, when a U-boat was first spotted, power would then be progressively reduced so that any detector aboard the U-boat would show that the plane was receding, when in reality it was closing in.
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