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Are war diaries accurate

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by irma (U13450292) on Wednesday, 15th October 2008

  I am researching WW1 casualty - on medal card and service record he was in the 1/15 London Regiment (civil service rifles) Have seen his name on the Menin Gate memorial and wondered in which battle he was killed. Visiting the National Archives last Saturday I took a copy of this regiments war diary and looked at the date he went missing presumed dead 16 Aug 1917 and they were training at Tatinghem and there were no casulties.
  Back home and looking again at statement of service under battalion it says 1/9 would this be different war diary and another trip to Kew?
  Think I am going to have to take course on the structure of the army!

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Wednesday, 15th October 2008

  Irma -
  I wouldn't recommend that you study the army - you might tell them what is wrong and there will be the most frightful row.
  
  Probably somewhere in this chaps record of service there is an entry which states that he was transferred from one to the other and/or one was so decimated in battle that the other was incorported to fill the ranks !
  Cheers

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• Message 3

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  Posted by dmatt47 (U13073434) on Wednesday, 15th October 2008

  I think we should ask if the medal cards for the First World War are accurate, there is a medal card for one of my ancestors who was not given any medals, not surprising as he died over 20 years earlier!.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by Stoggler (U1647829) on Thursday, 16th October 2008

  there is a medal card for one of my ancestors who was not given any medals, not surprising as he died over 20 years earlier!.Β 
  
  Sure it's not just for someone else with the same name?

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Amphion (U3338999) on Thursday, 16th October 2008

  I cannot comment on medal cards, but there are obvious errors that crop up in all area's of research.
  
  I read the obituary for one particular soldier in my local newspaper dated 16th May 1915. He was said to have been killed on May 8th, a description of his death being supplied by an eyewitness in a letter, also included in the obituary. Uet, both the Commenwealth War Graves Commission and the War Office: Soldiers Died In The Great War, both give his date of Death as 24-05-15, which would be about ten days after his obituary appeared in the local paper.
  
  I notice these discrepencies usually crop up when its soldiers who have been 'posted as missing.' These are the ones who are never found, and their names will be found on the Menin Gate or Le Touret Memorials.
  
  I wonder if it is possible that when a man went missing, the authorities responsible for recording his personal details would make all enquiries as to his whereabouts, and then when that failed they would register him as having been killed, but iusing the date on which they make the entry into the register as being the official date of death!

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  Posted by irma (U13450292) on Friday, 17th October 2008

  Thanks to every one who helped me on this one

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• Message 7

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  Posted by dmatt47 (U13073434) on Friday, 17th October 2008

  No, it is definitely the same person.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by LeamBull (U3889658) on Monday, 20th October 2008

  It reads very much to be as though he was transferred from 1/15th to 1/9th Battalions. That does mean another diary and another trip to Kew.
  
  dmatt, I am curious how you know the medal card relates to a man long dead. How do you know there is not another soldier of the same name?

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Brevabloke (U1685837) on Wednesday, 22nd October 2008

  Well Spike Milligans were not very accurate, but they give you a great idea what it was like to be a tiny cog in the Allies giant war machine.

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• Message 10

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  Posted by irma (U13450292) on Wednesday, 22nd October 2008

  I know my medal card is the correct one because the service number is the same as the one on the Soldiers records I assumed this was how everyone checked

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• Message 11

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  Posted by Rich Bryce (U2166089) on Friday, 24th October 2008

  It seems to me your relie was most likely in 1/9 London, and most likely went missing on the first day of the Battle of Langemarck 16-18 August, which was during the second phase of the Third Battle of Ypres (Passchendaele). 1/9 London (Queen Victoria’s Rifles) were part of 56th Division (II Corps, 53rd Brigade) at this time.
  
  
  
  1/15 (Prince of Wales's Own Civil Service Rifles) were part of 47th (2nd London Division) Division which was not involved in Langemark. That doesn’t mean of course that soldiers didn’t still go missing in training, but it seems less likely.
  
  It seems he transferred between the two units at some stage - promotion (?), after a period of recuperation following injury perhaps.
  
  As to accuracy of Medal Cards and Service Records, remember they were for different purposes and maintained by humans and so prone to errors. A couple of anecdotes illustrate:
  
  My granddad joined 2 Scottish Rifles in 1902 (aged 14!), was in 1SR when they embarked for France in August 1914, and later transferred to 11SR headed for Salonika. He therefore retaned the same regimental number throughout, but his Card and medals all only refer to 1SR. My uncle on the other hand received his 1914 Star in 1917 with one number and regiment, was injured in action, returned home and later transferred to a different regiment with a new regimental number for his Victory Medal.
  
  Another great uncle shared his first and surnames with another chap from the same small town (Kettering). Of similar ages they enlisted within days of each other at the same office. From then on their Service Records became muddled, a parent's name wrong, addresses transposed, even though they were in different units, to the extent that my uncles’ SR has him killed in action in 1917. His son, born in the late 1920s chuckled when I showed him copy recently.
  

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