Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Catapult ships: query
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Message 1.Β
Posted by priscilla (U1793779) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
These have bee mentioned twice re my reading of early years WW2 as escorts for mercantile convoys. Planes aboard were few - about 6 - and I can assume a method of releasing them from the name. My imagination works overtime however, so would someone explain them please. I assume they were not Air Craft Carriers in the modern sense - or were they? I was well - er - wondering the planes returned after a sortie.
Regards, P. -
Message 2
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
They didn't - the pilot baled out, or ditched near the convoy, and hoped to be picked up by the ships. (A short life, but a merry one???)
They were a desperate solution for a desperate problem, and were often used to shoot down or scare off the Kondor long range recon planes used by the Germans to locate / shadow convoys, and to guide other planes & U-Boats into to attack it. -
Message 3
Posted by priscilla (U1793779) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
Seriously? So how were they put into the air? And I assume they were flimsy affairs - cost wise. Were they flown by volunteers? Amazing stuff - unless, giraffe, you are teasing me.... these odd names people chose have made a sceptic of me. I mean no offence.
The thought occurs that if one's plane is hurled at the enemy then friendly help might be a tad further away.
Regards, P. -
Message 4
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
They were mostly standard Hurricane fighters, launched from a steam catapult on the deck of a ship in a convoy, when needed. (REALLY needed, I would imagine!!) This was in the days before carriers were common, or long range air cover for convoys was possible, and on the Murmansk run, where neither was feasible. A few CAM ships (Catapult Armed Merchantmen) might be included in a convoy, in a usually vain attempt to stave off, or at least delay, the day when the Germans found the convoy, and unleashed the full scale attacks.
No joke, I assure you - especially for the Pilots, who may or may not have been volunteers - I do not know. I raise my cap to them, either way! -
Message 5
Posted by WarsawPact (U1831709) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
They used 'proper' fighter aircraft such as Hurricanes on these ships - see the picture on this link:
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Message 6
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
Giraffe is correct. The pilot ditched and the aircraft either sank or it might be winched aboard.
The 'catapult' was usually in the form of a steam driven device that propelled the aircraft from a standing start to flying speed in a matter of 20 metres. A very rough take off for the pilot, I understand. Modern aircraft carriers still use a modern equivalent today.
On a warship, usually the 'catapult' was situated amidships in a larger type of battleship or on a large gun turret. The German ship 'Graf Spee' had two aircraft aboard. Several aircraft could be stored on these larger ships. The link below has a picture of a converted freighter version. The aircraft themselves were normally used as spotters for the ships, but could also undertake other duties, either to fend off bombers or attack submarines. They would normally be useless against a fighter formation because of a lack of numbers.
This link might help.
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Message 7
Posted by VF (U5759986) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
The 'catapult' was usually in the form of a steam driven device that propelled the aircraft from a standing start to flying speed in a matter of 20 metres. A very rough take off for the pilot, I understand. Modern aircraft carriers still use a modern equivalent todayΒ
Mm,Im not sure they would be steam powered.The Steam catapult (as we know today) was a used on carriers post war.Indeed it was one of 3 British inventions that made Jets viable for carriers( the "landing mirror sight" and the "angled deck" being the other two.I know that the steam catapult was trialed by HMS Perseus or Pioneer post war because Ive seen cine footage of one of those ships firing bails over the bows of the ship.Really the WW2 carriers had "accelerators" rather than catapults and Ive a feeling that they were hydraulic.
As for the MAC ships im pretty sure that they would have been rocket powered or compressed air or similar as oppossed to steam or hydraulic.
Vf -
Message 8
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
From the link WarsawPact provided
"...HMS Springbank.
One of the few of this new type of Fighter Catapult ships, Springbank was built for Merchant ship service in 1926. The Royal Navy acquired her in 1940, and converted this vessel into an AA ship with four twin High Angle 4 inch turrets, two sets of 20mm pom poms, and in 1941, fitted a cordite powered catapult amidships. A two seater Fulmar Naval Fighter squatted on this catapult..."
You are right that it was not steam Virtual.
It was CORDITE.
That is the same stuff they used to fire the big guns. Blimey. No wonder it was rough.
They might also have used other systems on different ships. -
Message 9
Posted by VF (U5759986) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
It was CORDITE.
That is the same stuff they used to fire the big guns. Blimey. No wonder it was rough.Β
I think you would need a new pair of trousers for every plane you fired off!
Vf -
Message 10
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
"...As for the MAC ships im pretty sure that they would have been rocket powered or compressed air..."
As an aside on this point, I think that rocket and compressed air devices were used to assist take off for float/seaplanes taking off from water. They have to overcome higher drag from the water, so needed extra ooomph. But these were in the form of pods attached to the sides. The acceleration from these particular devices would not, I suspect be enough for the extremely short catapults used on ships.
Having said that, someone will now immediately prove me wrong no doubt ! -
Message 11
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 9th October 2008
M A C Ships were not C A M ships. MACs were Merchant Aircraft carriers. A merchant ship (Grain Carrier or something that carried a bulk cargo) The ship then had its superstructer removed, and a flight deck fitted. It carried a cargo, and was Commanded by a Merchant Navy Officer from below the flight deck. Above, she was Fleet Air Arm. These were the Forerunners of the Woolworths. Cargo ships converted into escort carriers C A Ms (Cargo Aircraft Merchant) carried just one aircraft on a one way trip.
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Message 12
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Friday, 10th October 2008
We need to distinguish between CAM ships and warships like the Graf Spee and others, which launched floatplanes that could be landed and recovered. The warship could send up a 'scout', land it on the water, and winch it back on board, for re-use.
For the aircrew, this was a 'normal' mission, (albeit with a few more dangerous aspects, such as the launch, getting lost, landing, etc) with a nice (hopefully) warm bed at the end of it.
The poor old CAM Pilot was in a very different kettle of fish indeed, with nothing to look forward to but a cold bath and the HOPE of pickup, if the area was not full of U-boats at the time.
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