Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Titanic
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Samar (U9920347) on Saturday, 13th September 2008
Do you like Titanic???????????????????????????
Samar -
Message 2
Posted by Philip25 (U11566626) on Saturday, 13th September 2008
The fil, the liner or what?
I am fascinated by the RSS Titanic as a vessel and her catstrophic end.
I enjoy the detail and hard work put into the recent film, while thinking the performances of de Crapio (spelling mistake deliberate) and the woman utterly dreadful.
Phil -
Message 3
Posted by Philip25 (U11566626) on Saturday, 13th September 2008
PS: why is this under war and conflict??
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Message 4
Posted by Amphion (U3338999) on Tuesday, 16th September 2008
I like the Titanic too., I recently saw the 50's film, on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ2, "A Night to Remember", which is said to have ignited the modern day interest in the story of the vessel. A true classic as compared with the nineties version.
Actually, the Titanic story does have a slight relevance to the Great War that would follow just two years after the ships sinking. We can use the story of the Titanics maiden voyage, in particular, the use of Radio, to demonstate the almost fervent competition between the British and Germans as regards trade.
The Titanic had the Marconi system of radio on board. In fact, the ship employed two radio operators, whose real purpose on board the ship was a commercial one. i.e., relaying messages from ship to shore, for all those well-to-do businessmen that were on board ship. Where as other ships employed only one Radio operator (The Californian, for example).
The German ships at the time, employed the Telefunkel radio system. In fact I believe, that Marconi actually got his syatem patented ahead of the German system by a couple of seconds. Now, Im not saying that any German ships in the vicinity of the Titanic on the night of her appointment with fate, wouldn't have rendered assistance to the big vessel. But, there were definately ships of the Hamburg-amerika line at sea in the Atlantic that night, what is strange, they have always been reletively quite as to their actions, knowledge, understanding, of the Titanic disaster... or maybe they were simply on a different frequency??? -
Message 5
Posted by JB (U11805502) on Tuesday, 16th September 2008
Two examples of all too typical Hollywood Anglophobia in the Cameron film:
The portrayal of Second Officer Lightoller as a gun-wielding murderer, when he went on to be a hero at Dunkirk.
And the somewhat confused retort of the deckhand who corrects a passenger because "It's not a British Ship! It's an Irish Ship, built by Irish hands..." a view which would have been met with some well-constructed arguments from the H&W workers of the day if you'd told them that they were (a) not British and (b) part of some tangible expression of Fenian identity. -
Message 6
Posted by Ratswiskers (U7323852) on Tuesday, 16th September 2008
The Titanic is of course the most notorious ship of the White star line but she did have two sister ships the Olympic and the Britannic.
Both of which continued in service after the accident, these were remarkable ships, the largest liners then built.
The Olympic was the first to be built and she continued in service until 1935.
The Britannic served as a hospital ship at the eastern front during WW1 and was lost to a German mine in 1916.
The tragedy of the Titanic is that she sailed with a pressed crew drawn from other ships in the White star fleet, the people were unfamiliar with the ship and poorly trained, and as the American enquiry found, it was this lack of knowledge, discipline and training which lead the incompetent evacuation of the ship, and the ensuing loss of life. -
Message 7
Posted by Amphion (U3338999) on Wednesday, 17th September 2008
JB I could probably go on for days about the many irregularities that were featured in the 1998 film. I read the book by Wynn Craig Davies, in 1982 about the American enquiry. (I cannot find the book in print now, I assume its been deleated)
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Message 8
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Friday, 19th September 2008
But what is the truth? Some of the stories, especially from Collabsible B, don't sound very truthful.
This boat was washed off as the ship sank and ended up upside down. The people who survived on this boat supposedly either balanced on top of it or clinging on to it for 4 hours. All of them soaked in ice cold water.
Compare this with the experiences of Briggs, Dundas and Tilburn of the Hood. These men also went into the water,clambered onto life rafts and were picked up by HMS Electra no more than a couple of hours later.The three of them were near dead from hypothermia by the time they were rescued. There was no drifting ice where Hood sank,so it is reasonable to assume she sank in warmer conditions than Titanic. Hood's survivors were also covered in fuel oil which acted as an insulator.
The chances of anyone surviving more than a few minutes at the Titanic sinking after being in the water would be negligible, far less four hours.
Trike -
Message 9
Posted by Amphion (U3338999) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
Good point Tricertops.
I remember reading an account by Fifth Officer Lowe, who was the officer who lashed a number of lifeboats together, transferred survivors into a couple of boats, and then took an empty boat back into the area where the mass of humanity were living and dying in the freezing water.
He managed to pick up a number of people who still appeared to be alive. One was a oriental who at first, Lowe said he had misgivings about taking on board, but he changed his mind. The oriental, as soon as he got into the boat, jumped to an oar, and when required, paddled with all his might. Lowe, later regretted what he had first thought on picking him up, and said, the oriental was worth the weight of ten men (or words to that effect). Of course, the oriental survived. Other's who had been pulled from the water, and didn't show quite the same energy, did eventually perish to the cold!!! -
Message 10
Posted by bringitbeard (U13418562) on Thursday, 25th September 2008
first of all the film is brilliant and i think it captures the beauty and grandure of the ship. it is also the number one film of all time so it cant be that bad. and dicaprio also got teenage girls (and some boys) into history and that period so tell me how that is a bad affect on this country?
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Message 11
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Thursday, 25th September 2008
Hi Triceratops.
The weather on the night of the titanic sinking was a flat calm. Once they managed to get out of the water group warmth from hudddling together and the team effort of trying to balance the boat will have kept up tiher body heat and motivated them towards survival.
The Hood on the other hand sank in rougher conditions and a lot quicker than the Titanic there was no time make much in the way of preperations. you hit the water in what you wwere wearing at the time. Titanic sank so slowly that there was time to put on outdoor clothing. Not exactly world class survival gear but better than nothing.
Exposure is as much psycological as physical. During the Second World war the navy did some reasearch regarding survival in the water, what they expected to find was that younger men stood a better chance of survival, what they actually found out was that by far the best survial aid was to be married with kids. The younger men seemed to give up. The older married men didnt. They also tended to be carrying more body fat. which acts as an insulator and flotation aid. But the main factor was having that little bit more to live for. -
Message 12
Posted by Amphion (U3338999) on Thursday, 25th September 2008
How is it a bad effect on Britain, Bringitbeard!
Well, first there's the question of weight ratio's. Jack was not what you'd call, muscular. Yet, Rose, was definately carrying excess baggage. Now, when she was hanging off the back of the ship, and he tried to pull her up, well they would both have plummeted into the sea below.
Then, there was the class system of the time. Rose gatting cosy with somebody of Jacks standing would be the equivelant of say, The Princess Regent knocking about with a chimney sweep.
Then there was the moment where, poor old First Officer Murdock was seen to shoot dead one of the passenger and then shoot himself. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Mr. Murdock shot anyone, and considering that he died on the ship, I regard that as a totally unjustified insult to the memory of a man who was simply caught up in the greatest maritime targedy in history.
As for being the number one film of all time, maybe at the box office, but that fact changes every few years as a result of Hype.
Therefore, I can only suggest that you go and read Tek Wars! -
Message 13
Posted by Mikestone8 (U13249270) on Friday, 26th September 2008
Exposure is as much psycological as physical. During the Second World war the navy did some reasearch regarding survival in the water, what they expected to find was that younger men stood a better chance of survival, what they actually found out was that by far the best survial aid was to be married with kids. The younger men seemed to give up. The older married men didnt. They also tended to be carrying more body fat. which acts as an insulator and flotation aid. But the main factor was having that little bit more to live for. Β
This knowledge had reached Ealing Studios by 1953 at latest.
Remember the bit in "The Cruel Sea" when the officer comes home unexpectedly. His wife is in the bath or something, and the phone rings. Picking it up, he hears her new man asking "How long have we before that tiresome husband gets back?"
He returns to his ship, which is shortly afterwards torpedoed. He could probably have survived, but doesn't really try to do so. It just doesn't seem worthwhile any more.
I wonder if the reported fact that regular churchgoers (who are being prayed for by their fellows) are statistically more likely to survive illnesses and operations, is related to this. Many congregations (or at least the "regulars" among them) are close-knit groups not unlike extended families. So those being prayed for know they have a "home" to go back to. Is it perhaps not so much the prayers as the knowledge that they are being said, and the ties with those saying them? -
Message 14
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Friday, 26th September 2008
Hi Bttdp,
As far as I can find, the water temperature when Titanic sank was between 28F and 31F.It would be at the bottom end of the table in the link below,unconciousness in 15 minutes and death in 45 minutes.Looking at these figures,it's difficult to be believe Chief Baker Charles Jouglin claim to have been in the water for two and a half hours,especially since Jouglin was drunk[the worst thing to have in your system for hypothermia is alcohol],clinging on to Collapsible B.
The air temperature was as cold,possibly colder,than the sea water,even when they were out of the water,soaked to the skin, they would still be subject to freezing.
The dozen or so who survived in Collapsible A did so by huddling together and avoiding any exertion. "A" was partially flooded on launching.
Very interesting observation about the psychology of survival.
Trike. -
Message 15
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Friday, 26th September 2008
The air temperature was as cold,possibly colder,than the sea water,even when they were out of the water,soaked to the skin, they would still be subject to freezing.Β
Reading through that ussartf link again,it is much better to be out of the water,cold water kills body heat 32 times quicker than cold air.
My mistake.
Trike. -
Message 16
Posted by Ratswiskers (U7323852) on Friday, 26th September 2008
If anyones interested the full transcripts of the American and British inquiries can be found at www.titanicinquiry.org.
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Message 17
Posted by RSS_643_IKWIG (U13662597) on Tuesday, 11th November 2008
A word to the wise. If the original order for the Class of SHIP; TITANIC was eight in number: repeat EIGHT (8). Then the NAVAL RACE of the EDWARDIAN PERIOD included TROOP TRANSPORT as well as 'gun bar gun'. The record in the 'Public Realm' is certainly three, afterall the OLYMPIC and the BRITTANIC existed. As for the fourth vessel; which was certainly built under the UNIT COST DIVIDEND: where is it now...? If there were four others; all painted BATTLESHIP GREY: Perhaps the DOUGHBOYS will answer later...?
NB. Of course, if the design was compromised as discussed; was it commercial, industrial or ACTIVE AGENT: a pre - WAR detail in International SABOTAGE?
ps. this may sound bizzare to some but a young German Naval Artificer called ADOLF; who made a considerable amount of money prior to the FIRST WORLD WAR (approximately Β£2.5 million and certainly enough to fund the foundation of the NSDP later), was known as a FARAMHIES or Interior Decorator. He was believed to have discussed the TITANIC interior design with tutors at the GLASGOW SCHOOL OF ART (including C.R.Mackintosh) whilst working for Miss Cranston on the BUCHANAN STREET tearooms in 1896 designed by C.R.M. himself. To close a very real circle of inference; C.R.M. is now known to have studied at DALMUIR (Beardmore: JOHN BROWN YARD) before attending an ARCHITECT's practice at the 'ripe' old age of 16 years old. Note contemporary practice...when a 'Day pupil' was four years old. -
Message 18
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Tuesday, 11th November 2008
"Do you like Titanic"
No. The whole subject has been done to death (no pun intended). The sinking of the Titanic is no more horrific than any of the other thousands of ship wrecks, so why the obsession with this one?
If you mean the film, no again. Usual Hollywood tripe. -
Message 19
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Wednesday, 12th November 2008
What's ALL this RANDOM upper CASE rubbish all ABOUT, then?
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Message 20
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 21
Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Wednesday, 12th November 2008
"What's ALL this RANDOM upper CASE rubbish all ABOUT, then?"
I think it's designed to confuse, because on and earlier topic it sure confused me, I gave up replying in the end. -
Message 22
Posted by Stoggler (U1647829) on Wednesday, 12th November 2008
What's ALL this RANDOM upper CASE rubbish all ABOUT, then?Β
Good question, I was wondering about that myself... -
Message 23
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Wednesday, 12th November 2008
Don't pay it no mind!
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Message 24
Posted by Andrew Host (U1683626) on Thursday, 13th November 2008
Hi RSS_643_IKWIG,
Nice to see you on the boards. Just a message board tip:
It's generally accepted that typing words in upper case is the equivalent of shouting at other members. It does make your posts seem more aggressive than intended, and may cause unnecessary offence.
Happy posting!
Andrew -
Message 25
Posted by RSS_643_IKWIG (U13662597) on Wednesday, 31st December 2008
With respect to all concerned; if the use of UPPER CASE is against the 'House Rules' then surely the MODERATOR would have noted that fact already? Inotherwords; CHILL OUT.
Reach for a COOL BEER or that CHILLED BOTTLE of wine in 'the' CHILL CABINET behind the cafe / bar top; before you end up FLAT ON YOUR BACK in that other CHILL CABINET; known to all and sundry as the MORGUE. A 'Heart Attack' with blood in your mouth is DEATH and not someting you can recover from; such as a PANIC ATTACK.
Better still; try valid criticism. Inotherwords; critical analysis of the content described. If affronted; try issuing a WRIT. Have your day in court... -
Message 26
Posted by LairigGhru (U5452625) on Friday, 2nd January 2009
I am sure that everone will agree with me when I say that RSS's response to Andrew Host's polite and friendly message is both voracious and insane. Such behaviour, indeed, puts the whole messageboard at risk, ruining things for the rest of us who use it in the way it was intended.
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Message 27
Posted by petaluma (U10056951) on Friday, 2nd January 2009
Andrew, re. mess. 24, capitals often used in some cultures to emphasize a word or name, to 'take note off' as at times italics was used typer would add in publicized print, "Italics are mine" for the same reason, often used in Britain at one time. Time often change customs, plus different cultures different values.
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Message 28
Posted by Andrew Host (U1683626) on Saturday, 3rd January 2009
Hi all,
If you want to italicise then the accemted way here and I believe o other boards is to put the word inside *asterisks* - that way people don'y confuse emphasis with shouting.
Cheers
Andrew -
Message 29
Posted by Andrew Host (U1683626) on Saturday, 3rd January 2009
apols for numerous typos!
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Message 30
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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