Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
the use of gas
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Message 1.Β
Posted by ritajoh (U10855204) on Tuesday, 17th June 2008
Been watching DVD of WW1,the germans used gas on our soldiers, did we use it on the Germans. -
Message 2
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Tuesday, 17th June 2008
Yes, the first major use of gas by the BEF was at the Battle of Loos in September 1915,chlorine gas if I remember correctly.
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Message 3
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Tuesday, 17th June 2008
A bit more about it;
Trike. -
Message 4
Posted by Brevabloke (U1685837) on Thursday, 19th June 2008
Try the book "A Higher Form Of Killing" by Seymour Hersh. It's ghoulish but fascinating all at once.
And yep we sure did use gas; though the allies always were about one step behind the Germans. -
Message 5
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Thursday, 19th June 2008
There's a great account of an early British use of chlorine gas in Robert Graves' "Goodbye to all that". If Graves is at all reliable, it was a ludicrously amateurish affair, with chemistry academics wandering round with spanners undoing seals on glass jars full of chlorine. When the wind changed it all blew back into the British lines. Graves also describes an early type of gas mask, known affectionately to the men as "the goggle-eyed booger with the tit".
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Message 6
Posted by Brevabloke (U1685837) on Thursday, 19th June 2008
Graves was bang on. It WAS an amateurish affair.
And as an aside, my old boss in medical research in 1987-88 was ex Porton Down. -
Message 7
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Friday, 20th June 2008
And yep we sure did use gas; though the allies always were about one step behind the Germans.Β
Very true, the Germans kept their lead in chemical warfare and in the 1930's they devoloped the nerve gases Tabun and Sarin. -
Message 8
Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Friday, 20th June 2008
If you want to read a good novel about Sarin and Sauran? Soman? Hmm...can't remember the name of the other - it is Black Cross by Greg Iles.
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Message 9
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Friday, 20th June 2008
Not surprising the Germans kept a lead in chemical warfare - from the late 19th century on, they had a lead in industrial chemistry generally.
It's ironic that the key man behind their chemical weapons programme, Fritz Haber, would later be kicked out of Germany by the Nazis on account of his being Jewish (despite having converted to Christianity). It was even within Haber's institute that the infamous Zyklon-B was developed; though at the time it was intended as a grain store insecticide. -
Message 10
Posted by Erik Lindsay (U231970) on Saturday, 21st June 2008
It's not generally known, but according to a couple of accounts I've read, the Americans had stockpiled, and were considering the use of, poison gas if they had been forced to invade Japan.
Can you imagine the outcry if that had been actually carried out? -
Message 11
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Sunday, 22nd June 2008
Redcoat,
I'll keep an eye out for it next time I'm at the library.
Mike,
Good point about the German chemical industry,without it the Germans might not have been in a position to fight WW1. The saltpetre from South America could be easily blocked by the British and without their synthetic production the Germans could not have manufactured high explosive.Fritz Haber was again the man responsible
Erik,
This is the first I've heard of a poison gas plan to attack Japan. Searching the net I found this,
Most other sources say the Americans planned retaliatory use only.
This is an interesting article about the invasion of Japan, Operation Downfall,subdivded into Operations Olympic[attack on Kyushu] and Coronet[attack on Honshu].
And the British would have used gas in the event of a German invasion in 1940
Trike. -
Message 12
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Sunday, 22nd June 2008
Erik -
It should also be noted that the Americans were in a retalitory mode with a shipload of Mustard Gas sent into the harbour at Bari -in Southern Italy - I think it was around November '43 when the Lufwaffe got lucky for once - bombed the harbour - hit the Gas carrying ship - set it on fire which then bumped into an ammunition ship - which blew up causing mayhem - thousands were killed mainly from a lack of Oxygen...didn't make the 6 o'clock news somehow !
Cheers -
Message 13
Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Sunday, 22nd June 2008
Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:04 GMT, in reply to Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper in message 12
The earliest use of poison gas (of a sort) that I'm aware of was during the British Civil Wars - possibly one of the sieges of Basing House? Hay was impregnated with sulphur and burned, with the smoke intended to carry toxic fumes towards the enemy with the aid of the wind. Not surprisingly, it wasn't a great success. I imagine there had been other attempts - they were probably trying out something similar in the Thirty Years War, for example. -
Message 14
Posted by MB (U177470) on Sunday, 22nd June 2008
Nick McCamley's book "The Secret History of Chemical Warfare" is worth reading.
There were a lot of commercial pressures because there was a very big expansion in the chemical industry in both the UK and USA to produce the weapons in WWI.
MB -
Message 15
Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Sunday, 22nd June 2008
It depends what you call 'one step behind'. The allies were indeed late in using specific gases, often more for political reasons than for technical reasons.
But the British army was superior in its use of gas almost throughout the war, using it more than the Germans and more effectively. This was in part for simple reasons as the prevailing direction of the wind (west to east) and a ready supply of rubber, which was scarce in blockaded Germany. But they also produced more and invested more in technology for its delivery.
I think even today most of the gas-filled shells that are found on the former battlefields are British, not German.
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