Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
American War of 1812-14
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Essexroundhead (U5331128) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Has anyone read a good book on this they can recommend please? I've read a couple by USA authors that were both one sided, accounts of individual battles such as New Orleans, but am looking for a balanced overall military and political account.My library only has the War of Independence.Many thanks in advance.
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Message 2
Posted by Scarboro (U2806863) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Canadian historian Pierre Berton wrote two books about the war of 1812, "Flames across the border" and "The Invasion of Canada - 1812-13". They are well written and researched.
Until his death a few years ago Berton was widely regarded as a historian and as a writer. You would get a pretty balanced view and a great amount of factual detail. -
Message 3
Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Pierre Burton has for long been regarded as a great popular historian of Canada.
I am not completely sure of the history of the war of 1812, but I believe one of the causes was a New York Congressman who had, by his bellicose speeches, created a slight war mania in the US.
The US thought it would be easy to take over Canada. However, the Brits and the Canadians, under Sir Isaac Brock, defeated an American army at Queenston Heights, near present day Niagara Falls.
The Americans took York , now Toronto and burned down the Parliament building of Upper Canada (Ontario); the Brits got to Washington and returned the compliment by burning down the US Capitol and the White-house and some other government buildings, as well.
Only two items were rescued from the burning White-house; a painting of George Washington, rescued by the then first lady, Dolly Madison, and a jewelry box, later restored to Franklin Roosevelt by a Canadian man in 1939.
Both sides agreed to sue for peace and equanimity was restored and the present border was created in 1815. Since then it has been the greatest friendship between nations in history.
They are each others largest trading partners. When one is in danger, the other side immediately does all it can to help. On September 11, when there were a large number of US Flights in the air and no one knew what would happen to the passengers in them, the US planes freely landed in Canada without further ado.
When I returned to Canada after 20 years in America, just after September 11, 2001, my car had American license plates. Many Canadians would come up to me whenever I got out from my car, and express their genuine sorrow at those events. A large group of ordinary Canadians went to New York, to ground Zero on their own initiative, to pay their respect to those lost on that fateful day.
If all countries lived together with their neighbors as sensibly as the US and Canada do, e.g. Creating the famous St. Lawrence Seaway, having a Car Pact, etc., the whole World would be a better place.
Tas -
Message 4
Posted by cmedog47 (U3614178) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Tas,
Pretty much everything that I have read on the war, all of it written by Americans, places the primary cause of the war as British interference with maritine trade and continued impressment of seamen off American ships, mentioning the movement by those who hoped to annex Canada as a secondary additional factor.
I have to say that I have never read a comprehensive history of the war, but rather of various aspects, almost as if it was several different wars which I suppose in a way it was.
"A Rage for Glory: The life of Commodore Stephen Decatur, USN" is a fun read which of necessity tells the story of the naval war as it tells the life story of one of America's more colorful characters. It more or less takes the view which I saw in earlier reads that American shipping was already essentially in a state of war ere it was declared, and that further hostilities were inevitable following the attack of the HMS Leopard on the Chesapeake.
In the Northwest territories the settlers rightly or wrongly thought the British, who had not yet vacated American territory following the war for independence, were backing the Indians in their war against them.
Likewise in the south with the Creeks. A recent biography of Andrew Jackson covers the politics of the southern war nicely. It also notes that at that time in American politics, many of the men who were ascendent, especially in the west, were men like Jackson who bore literal physical scars from the bloody and irregular war of independence on the western frontier, and still thought of the British as the evil empire.
So parts of the nation were already in low-level conflict directly or through proxies with Britain and felt it was time to take them on directly. The cooler heads opposed it because they thought, quite correctly, that the US was not ready for war with Britain.
Politically, however, war was no longer avoidable on the US side without a radical change in British policy.
At a sociological level, I think the war was a necessary step to the two nations coming to treat each others as equals and attain the partnership which culture and history made natural to them. It marked the end of Britain treating the US as a semi-sovereign colony unworthy of national standing, and the end of anti-British resentment as a major driver of American sentiment--the bane of newly freed colonies everywhere.
While the US by no means won the war, they had some successes over which they could wave their flag, forget their defeats, and stand proud that they had defended their national dignity. While Canada remained independent, the war left the eventual US annexation of the rest of the gulf coast inevitable. It was a point of pride that the war was fought entirely with volunteers, mostly miiltia--a limited government had been able to conduct a war without resort to conscription (a principle abrogated 50 years later). The people chose to forget that the British navy had bottled them up the entire fleet once they brought their massive might to bear and instead remembered that in ship-to-ship actions, their vessels had done so well that the admiralty forbad their vessels from engaging American vessels individually.
And then finally the Battle of New Orleans, which had no outcome on the already signed peace treaty (but which would have resulted in the British keeping New Orleans had they won and thereby nullified the treaty) was such a one-sided affair that it left the Americans with a feeling of victory, even without one.
I think of it as something of a family affair. Sometimes brothers have to have a serious bloody eye-gouging rolling in the mud brawel before the older stops treating the younger like a kid and younger get over it and they can treat each other like autonomous equals. -
Message 5
Posted by MB (U177470) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
There seem to be quite a number of 19th Century books about this that can be downloaded through GOOGLE BOOKS.
History of the Late War Between the United States and Great Britain ...
By Henry Marie Brackenridge
A History of the Political and Military Events of the Late War Between the ...
By Samuel Perkins
History of the Late War Between Great Britain and the United States of ...
By David Thompson
etc -
Message 6
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
"The Age of Fighting Sail" by CS Forester (author of the Hornblower novels),as it's title suggests it concentrates on the naval aspects of the war. Very readable and presents a balanced picture of the sea fighting
Trike. -
Message 7
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Free to download,Teddy Roosevelt's Naval War of 1812.
Volume 1
Volume 2
Trike. -
Message 8
Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Hi Kurt,
I bow to your superior knowledge of US history!
In my case I am slightly schizophrenic on this conflict being an American Citizen for the last 20 years and before that being a Canadian Citizen. Whatever I have learned of that war was on the Canadian side of the fence, so probably slightly Canadian-sided, although the Canadians that I know have never gloated at all about that war.
I agree that one of the chief causes was Britain trying to bottle up Napoleon by use of their navy and doing things to US ships that the US objected to. The American war of independence was not that old and each side had some lingering hubris against the other.
I am glad to see that that hubris has long since dissipated and US and Canada are now the closest of friends. All power to these two Great countries! May they long prosper!
I seem to have picked two winners!
Regards,
Tas -
Message 9
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Essexroundhead
I can recommend "Amateurs To Arms!" by John R Elting (ISBN 978-0306806537). Although Elting is a US writer, he was a professional soldier and is critical of the US Administration of the time. It is a fairly balanced account.
The US military history site has a pretty good summary:
The opening sentence is probably the most succinct explantion of the British position.
The Canadian Military History Gateway has an account from the Canadian perspective, but the site doesn't appear to working at the moment. Link anyway:
Canadian colleagues have all recommended the Bierton volumes.
Hope this helps.
LW -
Message 10
Posted by travellingmac (U5675212) on Sunday, 27th April 2008
Hi Essex,
Have just finished Jon Latimer's excellent account of the 1812 war written from a UK/Canadian perspective published last year..well worth the read. -
Message 11
Posted by Essexroundhead (U5331128) on Tuesday, 29th April 2008
All posters- Great stuff, thank you all very much indeed!!
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Message 12
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Wednesday, 30th April 2008
Theres a re print of the "naval events of war of 1812" around in the discount shops as well.
Presents the British side and while reasonably accurate for the time should probably be kept on a shelf to its self incase it beats up the american books.
The original author was interned in america at the start of the war and doesnt seem to have enjoyed the experience. -
Message 13
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Wednesday, 30th April 2008
backtothedarkplace,
Theres a re print of the "naval events of war of 1812" around in the discount shops as well.
Presents the British side and while reasonably accurate for the time should probably be kept on a shelf to its self incase it beats up the american books.Β
What's the title?
The original author was interned in america at the start of the war and doesnt seem to have enjoyed the experience. Β
Who enjoys internment? -
Message 14
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Wednesday, 30th April 2008
Hi WhiteCamry.
Full and correct title.
Naval occurances of the war of 1812.
Author William James.
ISBN 0 85177 987 5
priced about Β£20.00 new got it from a remainder shop for Β£8.00.
Still got some left last time I was in if you want one? -
Message 15
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Thursday, 1st May 2008
backtothedarkplace ,
Thanks, no; I'll get it where I am (somewhere west of the Atlantic)
For my 2 cents, I recommend Theodore Roosevelt's 'War if 1812.' Naturally, it has an American slant but it's an absolutely fun read. -
Message 16
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Thursday, 1st May 2008
Ive seen the link and am downloading it as we speak. if yopu have bother getting a copy give us a shout I could always scan it on one page at a time
With Mr James I am afraid that there isnt so much as a British slant as British down hill ski slope. He really, really, didnt like being interned.
I'd make sure all breakables are out of the way though. He doesnt make any secret about it being a response to american newspaper reports at the time.
He does have some valid points though and I havent actively found a fault with his information. -
Message 17
Posted by Fureys (U7828610) on Friday, 2nd May 2008
Just a little trivia on the 1812 war. Did you know that Dartmoor Prison was built mostly by American POWs? In fact a visit to the graveyard of the prison will show a number of graves of American prisoners who died in captivity there. The prison was initially intended for prisoners from Napoleon's army, but I have no recollection of when it became a civilian prison.
Fureys -
Message 18
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 5th May 2008
Hi WhiteCamry.
Full and correct title.
Naval occurances of the war of 1812.
Author William James.
ISBN 0 85177 987 5
priced about Β£20.00 new got it from a remainder shop for Β£8.00.
Still got some left last time I was in if you want one?Β
It's free as well;
. -
Message 19
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Tuesday, 6th May 2008
Hi Trike, couldnt you have posted that before I dropped my Β£8.00.
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