Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Information on REME
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Message 1.Β
Posted by pararmkay (U11184545) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
My grandfather was with REME attached to the 51st HD in North Africa. I have several photos of him when they pushed into Sicily and Italy. I am looking for contact with veterans groups that may have knowledge of REME during these operations. I would like to learn what I can about my grandfather during the war. He died when I was very young and never got the chance to discuss with him the war.
Please feel free to email at [Personal details removed by Moderator]. Please be patient with response I live in the USA.
Thanks.
Richard Kay -
Message 2
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
Richard -
This will be a tricky one as 1) REME was a technical outfit of mainly Mechanics as opposed to Engineers who primarily served in small detachments to various Battalions - looking after the Vehicles - Carriers etc of an Infantry Battalion - 2) in the Armoured regiments they served with two or three men in maintaining the tanks and other vehicles in each squadron of Tanks and in the first-aid repairs after battles.
So what you would need to take the information further would be the unit/s to which he was attached - that will be the tricky part -
Incidently the 51st HD did not land in Italy but went home with 50th Tyne and Tees division after the end of the Sicilian campaign to be followed by elements of 7th Armoured Div when they finished up at Naples...your Grandfather might have been with 7th Armoured at that time if you have photos of him in Italy - as all three were members of XXX corps which landed on or about D Day in Normandy.
You might want to apply to Glasgow records office for his Service Record which will give you verse and chapter of his activities !
Good luck in your quest ! -
Message 3
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
Richard,www royal electical and mechanical engineers.And you should be able to find all you want to know about the REME.
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Message 4
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
Richard,also "Google" R.E.M.E.Museum
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Message 5
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
Richard,
This is a big question the HD was a big division and your Grandfather could have served in any of the units.
Those units could have been from a full divisional workshop down to an LofC (line of communications) a few fitters keeping the vehicles moving and lots of them broke down.
Pictures, any living members who remember him are all good sources of information.
REME was formed in late 1941 so by the end of the western desert campaign was still in its infancy.
Your Grandfather could have started his service in one of many other units or Regiments.
A lot of Regiments carried their own fitters who were turned into REME overnight. RAOC had big workshops and RASC lots of mechanics, they were gradually turned over to REME.
Even after the war men were being taken from other Regiments or Corps to become REME, you can see there is a lot of muddy water out there.
If you have specific questions I will try and answer or get the answer as I have some books on the history of REME.
If you had his army number the REME museum may have some knowledge of him but I doubt it.
You definitely need more family information to get your answers I will help where I can.
Frank, -
Message 6
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
frank,the REME was formed in October 1942.
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Message 7
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Tuesday, 4th March 2008
Docdogsbody -
Oh dearie me - the last thing I would do when in the army - was to argue with a WO1 - now if W01 Frank Mee says the REME was originally formed around October 1941 - I would already be at attention and shouting YES SIR !
Cheers -
Message 8
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Docdogsbody,
You are technically correct, the REME was formed on the ruling date of 1st October 1942.
The Royal Warrant dated 19th May 1942 and notified in Special Army Orders Nos 70 and 71 of 1942 the responsibilities of the new Corps were set out in Army Council Instruction 1605 1942.
Thus REME was officially formed.
Like all things military that is the day set aside but also like all things military not quite the whole story.
After the bad winter of 1940 when equipment was breaking down, technical equipment refusing to work, tank track pins breaking faster than they could fit them it was discovered the RAOC RASC and RE workshops could not cope.
Add the introduction of even more technical gear with high maintenance it was realised something had to be done.
After the fall of France, equipment of all kinds was very short, what we had needed to be kept going and a committee came to the conclusion a special force was needed for this.
The idea of REME was formed and started by amalgamations of RAOC and RE heavy workshops with RASC doing the basic vehicle repair.
That was seen to be just keeping things going when really what was needed was a unit under one command to be able to move ahead of demand and set of pools of equipment for re-issue when required.
So REME was initially in its birth in 1941 and possibly on paper even before.
In 1940 at Rushton Hall a school for Engineering officers was set up by Lt Colonel Borwick DSO of the Royal Scots Guards, the Chief instructor being Major Trevor Horn MC 16/5 Lancers.
The idea was that selected civvy engineers would be trained for the new technical arm of the army and some 3000 officers were eventually trained.
If we wanted to go further back it was realised in the 1914-18 war there would come a time for a special Corps but the horse orientated officer Corps between the wars put an end to that.
Frank. -
Message 9
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
TTC,I served four years with the REME,as a Recovery Mech.And if a WO1 told me the Moon was made of green cheese, I would answer,can you prove it "SIR".That is why you were a "Trooper" and I was a "craftsman",Notice the difference?.
The holding brackets for smoke dischargers were made of Aluminium they were reguley broken when
the lads fogot to close the engine decks on the Centurion Tank,The WO1 and our EME said it was not possible to weld them with gas/oxy welding kit.I proved them wrong! So don't give me this
YES SIR NO SIR Stuff. -
Message 10
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Frank,correct me if I am wrong?"In 1941 the War Cabinet directed By Sir William Beveridge to carry out an inquiry into the employment of technical manpower in the services".
"The First members of the new Corps were Engineers and Tradesmen from RAOC,RE,RASC,and other Units by form of "Transfer" and not "Amalgamation".By May 1945 the REME had proved to be indispensable. -
Message 11
Posted by ex4thhussar (U520216) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
DocDogsbody
I see, in reply to Tom C you say "That is why you were a "Trooper" and I was a "craftsman",Notice the difference?"
Be very careful Sir.... in the world that both Tom & I came from, this was what was known as "fighting talk" and would usually call for lances at dawn
In passing, I would also pay much heed to anything Frank Mee has to say about REME, in the few years that I have known him, he has usually been proven to be right about such matters !
Cheers
Ron -
Message 12
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Hi Ron,That is exactly what i mean,You and Tom can collect the "Green Cheese" and I'll sell it for you.
cheers
john -
Message 13
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
You are talking about the Beveridge, Sinclair, Weeks Committees, Sir William Beveridge and Sir Robert Sinclair, Major General Ronnie Weeks, held meetings about the use of skilled men in the service.
The first report was in August 1941 and the second in June 1942.
The Sinclair, Weeks, committee recommended the transfer of RASC and RAOC including some RE, the Beveridge committee that all men should be transferred to one Corps.
Things had been happening along this line in small section in UK and ME and it all came down to a change of cap badges flashes and flags after a while on what was already a done deal.
King George agreed to this happening having had a keen interest in the RAOC mechanical area.
Although records were not kept by some Units it worked out the original 78,000 men were a percentage of RE one percent RASC four percent and RAOC ninety five percent. when they reached 160,000 as its wartime strength they had been made up by direct intake.
I take your point about your ASM not knowing you could weld certain things, it depends on what his original trade had been.
We all started out as 1st class Craftsmen in a trade then had to pass another 1st class in another trade and a minimum 2nd class in a third trade before we could go on an Armarts course.
I started as a VM, which was my basic trade but we had every trade imaginable as basic trades at the school. Also at the school you sat a continuation of tests and one fail you were out, no second chance.
As an ASM I relied on my SNCO's Corporals L/Corporals and even Craftsmen to keep me right, no man on this earth can know everything about every trade.
My job was to keep the unit up to scratch, prepared to move and do its designated job.
Your WO1 did not get there by saving coupons, he worked hard to be in a position for a vacancy and so many never ever did make the final move up.
Frank. -
Message 14
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Hi Frank,My first week in Aborfield we were taught the History of the REME among other things,and because my memory is not so good as it
used to be I checked it out with the REME history
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ page before writing.
As regards a WO1,WO2,orStaffsergent for that matter do'nt get their rang for collecting coupons I amfully aware of.It was just a dig against "Boots Bisley and Co.(nobody is perfect)
as you righley say.As regards trade training,I qualified for Rocket technics,I failed on Algebra
and you do't get a second chance. -
Message 15
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Docdogsbody -
Some of us chose to remain as troopers in the Brotish Army - after failing the 6th WOSBIE - others remained as craftsman owing to their inability to move on.
The Army that I belonged to was based on obeying orders - and complaining afterwards unlike - some armies which looked on orders to be the basis of subjects for discussion - as did many "barrack room lawyers"- to their detriment !
Strangely - after I left the Army and became a General Manager of a company of 120 personnel - I had many occasions to hire craftsmen to look after our fleet of 40 odd vehicles - never thought to quiz them on Algebra !
Cheers -
Message 16
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Tom,I was with the REME a Corps of the British Army, and not like you in the BROTISH Army,"And when the Captain blows on his whistle all the soldiers go hme for their tee"
Cheers
john -
Message 17
Posted by ex4thhussar (U520216) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
"all the soldiers go hme for their tee" ?
I presume you mean "home for their tea" ?
Typos ?
We all make them, don't we ? -
Message 18
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Docdogbody,
I lived some of that history and saw many changes including three different cap badges four if you include my first, DLI.
We started with the laurel wreath with four shields with R-E-M-E one letter on each shield.
In 1948 we got the Horse and Lightning Badge, it took some time to get them out to MELF and into the desert.
On the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth the 2nd we had to change again as a Queens crown has a dimple in the top, where as a Kings crown is rounded. All flags and painted badges also had to be changed.
I have studied the REME history for many years and always there is something new.
I met many men like Tom and Ron, wartime soldiers who had been there and done it.
Those men had signed for five years or to the wars end so many were still in when I went in.
I say thank goodness for that, those old soldiers taught me how to keep warm, eat well and keep your nose clean, but best of all how to stay alive.
They told me stories or being forced to change cap badges when they had wanted to stay with their own units and comrades. Whole units were RAOC one day and REME the next they did not all like the change.
Never believe official history totally as there are often variations in how things happened.
I hate the modern trend of re fighting the war in perfect conditions then coming to a different conclusion.
They were not there, they did not have to face the enemy and wonder if they would see the end of the day. They certainly do not know the fear when your stomach turns to water and all you are interested in is the next rock ditch or cover.
History is for those who made it I say.
I started on here to try and help a chap find his Grandfather so will stop posting as all this has been gone over before.
Regards Frank. -
Message 19
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
Frank,I agree with your post 100%,I have learned
a lot more though our discussion,I hope the the others as well.I was Talking to boys 18,19 year old,who had just came back from Irak and Afghanistan totaly shocked, nervus wrecks from the things they had to do,and are on the best way to become alchoholics to try and forget. What shocked me the most was when they said that
when we go home on leave,Nobody is proud of us in
our hometowns all we hear is what are you doing
there you should be ashamed of yourselves,this on top of when we go on patrol,what do you want back or front armour as we are short of kit.this is not the Army I knew or Tom and Ron lived in,we are 50yrs further on,and the MOD still sends them out with stoneage equipment,and very little backing from their countrymen,who are eyewashed from stupid reporters who talk about a
clean war,and do'nt tell the public that the Boys are being sent out by our Government to do a dity bloody job with no credit or praise,so that the politicians can wash their hands in innocence. -
Message 20
Posted by Docdogsbody (U6435748) on Wednesday, 5th March 2008
By the way there is a part on the REME museum
called frequently asked questions this should be
able to help Richard.
best regards john.
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