Wars and ConflictsΜύ permalink
Battle songs & war cries
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Friday, 7th December 2007
Just wondering what songs, hymns, or battle cries you think you would need to hurl you into battle. What rousing anthem or patriotic hymn would get you out of that trench and at the enemy?
Me - jerusalem, rule britannia and my old school song (that still sends shivers down my spine.)
Love to know what everyone thinks! -
Message 2
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 7th December 2007
A battle hymn has to be necessarily expressing (by music and lyrics) the whatever ideals under which someone goes to fight. If one goes to fight for his own country then it has necessarily to have a connection with the country's history and culture. Our national hymn despite being composed by one quite capable composer has unfortunately little to do with our music tradition or culture. In fact sober greek music can provide with lots of songs and music proper for war, with Minor Asia and Black Sea Pontian dances being of the best for "before" battle and Minor Asian zeibekika for "after".
For a battle hurl, the WWII code-hurl for Greek soldiers is an all-time classic. Attacking on foot Italian positions, their battle cry was "AERA" which means obviously air (but also may have the sense of wind). I ignore why they used it particularly but it sounds impressive in battle having also nice connotations: air, breath, live, move like the wind, freedom etc., much more brave and noble than the likes of "death to infidels" or "fktheirmomas" of other armies...
It sounds very frightening when you are on the opponents' side cosidering also the fact that as a word is easily understood by any other foreign speaker. -
Message 3
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 7th December 2007
what about the parachute regiment war cry picked up in north africa
whoa muhammed (sp)
shouted many times at Arnhem
st -
Message 4
Posted by Mr Pedant (U2464726) on Friday, 7th December 2007
Bagpipes.
Love them. -
Message 5
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 7th December 2007
Stal. Isn't that likely to get some cleric from the Sudan demanding your death now.
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Message 6
Posted by Mick_mac (U2874010) on Saturday, 8th December 2007
I don't think Jerusalem can be classified as a gung-ho patriotic battle hymn, Redcoat.
It is actually quite unpatriotic in its sentiments and I often wonder if those who sing it out with gusto realise just how seditious it is. -
Message 7
Posted by Mick_mac (U2874010) on Saturday, 8th December 2007
To answer your question, Redcoat.
How about 'A Nation Once Again'?
I'll get my coat! -
Message 8
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Saturday, 8th December 2007
gf
its ok - i posted it using your IP address
beware the knock on the door lol
st -
Message 9
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Sunday, 9th December 2007
I agree also that Jerusalem is not that much patriotic.
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Message 10
Posted by priscilla (U1793779) on Sunday, 9th December 2007
My father said he and his buddies sang, "Here we go Looby Loo..." He survived so it must have worked.
As for me I've always liked 'Hearts of Oak,' as a soul stirrer.
An interesting thread to think about. Many of the songs children used to learn from the National Song Book, I think it was called were war and battle related and several very old ones.
Regards, P. -
Message 11
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Monday, 10th December 2007
Usually, if not invariably, the songs are unprintable - and the historians give the tunes they were sung to, rather than the lyrics actually sung, in their accounts. For example, they will cite "The girl I left behind me" as being sung by the BEF in 1914. The troops were actually singing "Oh we don't give a ? for old von Kluck and all his ? army".
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Message 12
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 10th December 2007
What rousing anthem or patriotic hymn would get you out of that trench and at the enemy?
Μύ
Someone behind me singing any of Phil Collins' solo "hits" would be inclined to propel me out of the trench and into the face of saturation machine gun fire - with open arms. -
Message 13
Posted by TrailApe (U1701496) on Monday, 10th December 2007
Just wondering what songs, hymns, or battle cries you think you would need to hurl you into battle.Μύ
To hurl me into battle?
Whacking great catapult might work, otherwise forget it. -
Message 14
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Monday, 10th December 2007
trail ape
true - very true - there is no way they would have got me from my stores desk in Aldershot
500 body bags - certainly sir i will get them for u
st -
Message 15
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Monday, 10th December 2007
Salti, salti ,salti. This is entirely the wrong attitude.
There called stores, not gives. The whole idea is that once stuff arrives in the hands for the brown coated stores trolls it never sees the light of day again.
Unless the pleader is bearing.
A/ completion of JSF12342324353 in triplicate. As this form has been on order since the Crimea there is no danger of anyone actually having one.
B/ making many many sacrifices of cigarettes and tea to the Stores god and his brown coated acolytes.
C/ A whirling chainsaw and a hocky mask. -
Message 16
Posted by AgProv2 (U538194) on Monday, 10th December 2007
On a different board (h2g2) I read the entry on General Custer and the Seventh Cavalry, and I was reminded that their regimental march is the old Irish tune "Garryowen". (I believe it still is, for the modern US Seventh Cavalry?)
It has a jaunty and very whistleable "tara-tarra-ta-tarra-ta-diddle-om-pom" beat about it, and most people who know thwe tune will, I guess, have first come accross it from its use in the Dustin Hoffmann movie "Little Big Man".
Just when the Hoffmann character has settled into a happy, but exhausting, family life in the Indian village with four wives, he is awoken one morning by its playing in the distance. This gets nearer and louder, and the next thing he is aware of is Custer's men perfoming an act of genocide, with musical accompaniment. He escapes, and later in the movie, is present when the Seventh Cavalry rides down the Big Horn valley with "Garryowen" playing in the background, only to run into serious retribution from the Indian nation.
"Garryowen" was also the regimental march of the British cavalry regiments in the Crimea: the Light Brigade rode down that particular valley with their bands playing it to cheer them on. Again (like Custer) led by a complete cretin called Lord Cardigan, whose immediate boss (Raglan) was an ineffectual twerp who could not exert sufficient control over a known- to- be- reckless subordinate..
So the thought occurs that this is surely a very unlucky piece of music for any military formation to have as its signature tune?
Soldiers tend to be very practical down-to-earth people with a strong streak of what might elsewhere be called supersition: knowing the history of this piece, I should imagine I'd be deeply, deeply, worried to hear it just before a battle (unless the other side were playing it in the distance, in which case I might grin and relax a bit...) -
Message 17
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 10th December 2007
AgProv,
has your computer got speakers?, if so:
the Washita scene in "Little Big Man" is quite true. Custer had the regimental band with him and they played Garryowen during the attack.
The tune itself, started life as a drinking song in Ireland where it was picked up by the British Army and made its way around the world.
Trike. -
Message 18
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 10th December 2007
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Message 19
Posted by AgProv2 (U538194) on Monday, 10th December 2007
Lovely! I feared the lyrics might be something hair-raising and Republican, otherwise hair-raising, sectarian and Loyalist (all those flutes, not necessarily Orange...) - but it turns out to be about the joys of getting hammered and having a fight purely for the joy of it. And it comes out of Limerick too, which is interesting and can be used in idle conversation with the Limerick branch of Herself's family!
BTW - Is there any truth in the story that the men at Rorke's Drift, faced with a surfeit of Zulus, sang "Men of Harlech" at them, or was that just made up for the film? I'd love to think it was true... -
Message 20
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 10th December 2007
BTW - Is there any truth in the story that the men at Rorke's Drift, faced with a surfeit of Zulus, sang "Men of Harlech" at them, or was that just made up for the film? I'd love to think it was true...Μύ
I'm afraid not, it was just made up for the film.
Check out the discussions on the Rorkes Drift thread over on History Hub. -
Message 21
Posted by ceegar (U5411333) on Tuesday, 11th December 2007
I have just listened to the Garryowen on the link above, I have to say that it wouldn't exactly fill me with the necessary drive to charge the enemy.
My personal choice would have to be Highland Cathedral, chills down my spine every time.
Ceegar -
Message 22
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Tuesday, 11th December 2007
dan
u are completely wrong lol
i would have been soooo efficient as a storeman - i could not have been wasted in combat
bullets sir - how many
no paperwork - dont worry i will sort it out later - just sign this te-he
fags and tea - of course sir - u may need to pay me in cash though !!
st -
Message 23
Posted by TrailApe (U1701496) on Thursday, 13th December 2007
The backbone of the British Army is not the NCO's but the cooks and storemen. Ok, in most cases the cooks and storemen ARE NCO's, but I think thats coincedental.
In my 20 years with the TA I was always nice to both cooks and the QM, and if my two lads were joining up I would advise them to do the same. Can't go wrong if you do that, always get plenty of grub and presenting knackered bits of kit doen't cost you anything.
I can remember bringing a damaged bit of kit (it was one of those brightly coloured stripey things you stuck on the back of a gun to make it acceptable to travel on public roads), I was expecting a right b0ll0cking, but the BQMS looked at it, got out an axe from the stores and told me to give it a proper mangling - and no questions asked.
I might have not reached the dizzy hieghts that some of my contempories did by keeping 'in' with that particular part of the unit, they were busy back slapping the WO2's and fawning on the young looeys, but I was never short of grub and a spare set of combats.
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Message 24
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Thursday, 13th December 2007
For me "Ride of the Valkyries" would seem to be a nice battlefield soundtrack. If I went into battle by helicopter. And there was surfing right by the battlefield.
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Message 25
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Friday, 14th December 2007
Ahh though Salti. your driving a horse and cart through the traditions of our fathers.
Imagine. the suplicant arrives in the hallowed portals of the Stores trolls. he stands at the counter. After a half an hour wait to test his worth an acolyte deigns to wander round to the other side of the counter dressed in his formal regalia of the coat. brown, stores. and clutching a bacon sandwich. he leans on the counter and issues the formal challange to the suplicant of "Waadddayahwant!"
The suplicant aproaches the counter and formally passes over the chitty signed by all his superiors starting at her majesty the queen and working down to the chaplin.
The acolyte inspects this delivers the ritual sniff. he then looks the suplicant up and down and weighs his character.
Then he draws himself up and delivers the ritual answer which shortly after my day was "F.O.F.A.D"* with all his might and majesty.
Then he vanishes into the darkness of the stores and the suplicant trousers his worthless chitty and with sinking heart goes off to tell his superiors that he has been found wanting.
*translation. go away fire at Donnington*
early eighties there was a fire in the central services warehouse at donnington for nearly 12 months you couldnt even get bog paper out of them -
Message 26
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Friday, 14th December 2007
AgProv,
gary owen was originally an irish drinking song that was adapted i believe by the irish regiments of the united states during the civil war. it then became the song for the first battallion of the 7th cavalry (part of the airmobile division) during the vietnam war.
raybans13 -
Message 27
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 14th December 2007
Dan
lol - very true - i have met these people many times
BUT - i would have been so efficient that when the post was overrun and cooks and storemen were called into the gun line it would have been "Except for Cpl Stalti as he will issue us bullets"
I would of course have been miles away at this time lol(in the brown coat)
st -
Message 28
Posted by VESTURIS (U10660293) on Friday, 14th December 2007
How could not mention that great Canadian
war song The North Atlantic Squadron or for
the modern day lad- I can't Get No Satisfaction
and/or Paint It black -
Message 29
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Saturday, 15th December 2007
VESTURIS,
something that would make me walk out of a trench would be london calling by the clash. i think in one of his books chris ryan of bravo two zero fame described it as a fitting sound track to an apocalypse. it is also at the start of the film bravo two zero.
raybans13 -
Message 30
Posted by highchurchman (U7711917) on Sunday, 16th December 2007
What about Lillibullero, (or however you spell it). It was supposed to have sung King James the Second out of two kingdoms.
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Message 31
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Tuesday, 18th December 2007
Salteriisok -
some time ago on parking my car in Vernon B.C. - I happened to notice the 1st Airborne sign on the back of a pickup truck - and the obvious driver about to unlock the door - so I yelled "Hawahy Mohhamet" - he dropped his keys in shock - and seemed to be reaching for his sten gun - we had a coffee and a good bull session as he had visited our camp at Penthreverie near Bone Nth Africa when the noise had been transferred to Sicily ! Small world ! -
Message 32
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Thursday, 20th December 2007
hi all,
i've launched a discussion about the foreign legion. i've heard some of their songs in documentaries and they never fail to send shivers down my spine. i think this is because they mostly concern death but have the adverse effect of forming incredible bonds between the legionairre. little story ...
during the siege of Dien Bien Phu the legions camerone day festivals came up (see link to wikipedia page about battle of camerone at end of thing) so they immediately began to sing when things had calmed down as much as they ever did in the evenings, it was rumored that you could hear snatches of their song le boudin floating across the valley.
as a whole i find french army and legion songs hugely spine chilling. i'll thrown in a few links to a couple of french military songs in this aticle. go listen to them and tell me what you think if you can understand them.
the link:
there are links to other songs from the french military in the related videos box.
enjoy,
raybans13 -
Message 33
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 20th December 2007
hi tom
my most favourite use of Whoa Mohammed is the bit in Band of Brothers when the lads who had been rescued chanted it at the rescue party lol
bet the wife enjoyed the tales (NOT)
st -
Message 34
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 20th December 2007
rescued from Arnhem that is
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Message 35
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 20th December 2007
raybans
superb
st -
Message 36
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Friday, 21st December 2007
thanks, now all i have to do is do as good a translation as i can then i'll post the lyrics that i've worked out.
raybans13 -
Message 37
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Friday, 21st December 2007
Vhen der Fuhrer says
'Ve ist der master race'
Ve'll Heil (Pbbt),Heil (Pbbt)
Right in der Fuhrer's face! -
Message 38
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 21st December 2007
raybans
for gods sake dont do that
they have a wonderfully mournful, militaristic sound
to find out they are actually singing
"My cat tastes better covered in garlic" wouldnt have the same effect lol !!
do the british military have no training songs - mani - where are u ??
ST -
Message 39
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Sunday, 23rd December 2007
probably won't do that then but i understand pretty much all of them though. exceptionally sad. i think that my favourite is one of the foreign legions songs calle j'avais un camarade. exceptionally sad.
raybans13 -
Message 40
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Sunday, 23rd December 2007
in reply to the brit training songs my schools ccf has put a few into me....despite the fact that they were learned from an aussi in the TA! one is an adaptation of the american airborne ranger song but now corrupted to fit eastbourne college hence the title eastbourne ranger.
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Message 41
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 27th December 2007
since this post i have been on utube and found the french songs from rayban = thanks
found many german ones (obviously) - which made me think - have british troops ever sang songs like this
or do we get motivated by this ??
or the horst wessel?
i dont think we can do this - we CAN do 3 german officers crossed the line parlez vous tho - the most militaristic song we have is "land of hope and glory" we cannot sing "we are marching on england" - the footie results ,beer and crumpet are way in front - why is this lol
st -
Message 42
Posted by highchurchman (U7711917) on Friday, 28th December 2007
Wasn't the Horst Wessel tune originally a Socialist song taken over by the Nazis in the late 20s of last century?
In the end, the avalanch of marching songs didn't do the Nazis any good at all. Just helped to ruin their country and caused the death of millions. -
Message 43
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 28th December 2007
according to wiki it was the tune of a ww1 german navy song based on a folk song - herr horst wrote the words
lfd
probably just as well we didnt do them then lol (mind u - they did quite well for a time)
the song from Battle of the bulge makes me laugh (sorta) - if it was the Guards Armoured the officers would have sung "god saves the king" - followed by "Three cheers for the general - hurrah hurrah hurrah"
st -
Message 44
Posted by vera1950 (U9920163) on Sunday, 30th December 2007
hiMicmac,
please explain what is unpatriotic or seditious about Jerusalem.
vera -
Message 45
Posted by vera1950 (U9920163) on Sunday, 30th December 2007
hi,
the US cavalry also used BRIGHTON CAMP as a marching tune.
I think HEARTS of OAK is an excellent choice.
Overall though there are various songs and tunes that mean different things to various regments and situations, I thnk the British soldier has always rallied to what was appropriate to them or the action/event taking place.
vera -
Message 46
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Sunday, 30th December 2007
hi vera
jerusalem is seditious because it contains NO reference at all to football or real ale lol
i just cant imagine british troops singing this
panzerlied + words
i can tho, imagine them singing "Ernie - the fastest milkman in the west" going into battle lol
st -
Message 47
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 30th December 2007
It appears that on the way to the Falklands, an altered version of "Summer Holiday" featured promionently.
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Message 48
Posted by vera1950 (U9920163) on Monday, 31st December 2007
hi stat,
hae a look at the site ''Hertage of the 1st world war''-t has good contents and tere is a section on songs of te time that you can listen to
vera -
Message 49
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Monday, 31st December 2007
Rock the casbah by the clash was the most requested song by forces in the first gulf war, listen to it and you'll work out why
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Message 50
Posted by AgProv2 (U538194) on Monday, 31st December 2007
Wasn't "Jerusalem" thought of as seditious because, written shortly after the English Civil War, it expresses the hope for a Republic where all are equal, none are hungry, and brotherhood and liberty prevail? Considering these were the demands of the Levellers and the more radical elements in Cromwell's army - ie, we've got rid of the King, why stop there, let's have a PROPER revolution - and that the first thing Cromwell did having won the war was to perfom a Stalin-like purge of his Army to remove and disarm people who were thinking dangerous thoughts like this (lest they act on them while they still had wepaons in their hands) - then you can see, in its context, how dangerous Blake's words would have been to those in positions of power and un-earned privilege.
I beleive Cromwell got rid of his dangerous radicals by deporting them to the West of Ireland (Australia not being an option in the 1600's). The English dissenters intermarried with and assimilated into the native Irish, so that centuries down the line, some of the adopted South American rebel leaders had exotic names like O'Higgins, and Che Guevara could baost Lynch blood on one side of his family. And thinking about it, "Adams" is a very English name in its context: I beleive Sinn Fein leader Gerry could trace his ancestry back to Bedfordshire, if he felt so inclined...
It's no accident that back in the day when Labour used to be a radical left-wing party, and in the run-up to the 1945 election when millions of British servicemen were politicised in a way they haven't been since, Labour adopted "Jerusalem", with its dangerously radical sentiments as a party hymn. I'm sure this scared the hell out of a lot of top brass...
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