This discussion has been closed.
Posted by Erik Lindsay (U231970) on Monday, 12th November 2007
the British fleet at Trafalgar, was anyone else available who could have been placed in command and who could have defeated the combined fleet?
, in reply to message 1.
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Tuesday, 13th November 2007
Other candidates such as Samuel Hood or John Jervis were perhaps available but were old men (Hood was officially retired).
Nelson was of a younger generation and (added to this the fact that he died before either of the other 2) this is perhaps why such a fuss was made of him at the time - and subsequently.
I hardly think "handy" is the best word to use
Ok... since the word ''handy'' seems to offend, would you suggest another - one that you feel is acceptable? (while you're at it, how about offering a response to the question?)
, in reply to message 1.
Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Tuesday, 13th November 2007
I think the command would have remained in the hands of Collingwood, who was still Nelson's second in command at Trafalgar, and would probably have done very well.
There is a story that Nelson himself suggested that Collingwood was the right man. However, Nelson's not inconsiderable vanity makes that somewhat unlikely.
, in reply to message 4.
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Tuesday, 13th November 2007
Ok... since the word ''handy'' seems to offend, would you suggest another - one that you feel is acceptable? (while you're at it, how about offering a response to the question?)
Ìý
Haven't you seen the statue on the top of the column then, Erik? Look closely next time you're passing in a bus and you might see that Jennifer was actually being quite humorous (though I think her little smiley was a broad hint myself).
Lighten up.
Your question is one of those "what if" types that I normally shy away from, but in this case feel obliged to point out that Nelson's tactics at Trafalgar were well rehearsed if a little unorthodox, but relied even by his own estimation on good fortune to win the day. A more conventional commander (and, as said above, several options presented themselves to the admiralty) might have left less to chance but thereby risked defeat, or at least a less comprehensive victory.
In hindsight (which no one of course had the benefit of at the time), a less comprehensive defeat at sea would not have been at all a calamity since events on the continent were in the process of relegating the encounter's overall strategic importance. The need however to "harry and blockade" French naval capabilities in the ensuing years would have remained, and since this tactic was performed with considerable success by Nelson's colleagues and successors anyway, it would be fair to say that a lesser leader might have won less of a victory but in the long term the same result would have been achieved.
Haven't you seen the statue on the top of the column then, Erik? Look closely next time you're passing in a bus and you might see that Jennifer was actually being quite humorous (though I think her little smiley was a broad hint myself). Ìý
Aye Aye, Nordman
Geeze Nordman...lighten up? (message 6)
My response was intended to assuage, not confront. I was merely asking her to insert a word that she thought might be more appropriate since I couldn’t come up with one.
Just FYI, I’ve never been to London -- in fact, I’ve never been to the Isles, altho’ I want to rather desperately, ergo I’ve never seen Nelson’s column, which may partly explain why I wasn’t quick to detect the humour. And I was hoping that possibly she could come up with some admiral’s name.
I just love these discussions -- that’s all.
Well Erik surely you must know Nelson was not very "handy".. And no there can be no other admiral in my book
Well, Collingwood certainly did very well against Sri Lanka the other day...
whoops! wrong Colly
Well, Collingwood certainly did very well against Sri Lanka the other day...
whoops! wrong Colly Ìý
Yay! How about captain Cook?
Cook would make a fine commander for sure...though there would be the risk that everyone would have finished the fight and sailed home for tea and biscuits by the time he'd played himself in.
On a side note...history AND cricket. Could we get married, please?
LOL..
All sports, computer games, beer, sciences, sci-fi, vindaloo, (no chick flicks, shopping etc).. I am unsure sometimes if i am a woman!
Isn't there some evidence that Nelson didn't really want the job, but felt he had the prestige to get away with his plan, whilst Collingwood, who was the available and likely alternative, might feel he had to stick closer to the "Fighting Instructions"? If Nelson had been serving under a different admirla at Cape St Vincent he might well have faced at least a Court of Inquiry, more likely a Court martial for leaving the line without orders. Trafalgar was (or should have been) the final stage of the melee/line of battle controversy.
<quote userid=</quote>Well Erik surely you must know Nelson was not very "handy".. And no there can be no other admiral in my book</quote>
Well, heck, Jennifer....I'm not usually so dense. I've always viewed Nelson as having only one ARM, but for some goofy reason I've never thought of Nelson [by extension ] as having only one HAND.
As Urnungal has noted, had anyone but Jervis been in command at St Vincent, Nelson might well have been court martialed. On the other hand had Nelson not disobeyed Jervis's orders, the latter never would have been able to catch the Spanish, ergo would never have been Earl St Vincent.
Strange how one disobedience that is overlooked can change so much.
When you say "by extension" do you really mean "by curtailment"?
I did read of an earlier British admiral called William Penn. The book claimed that Nelson in fact used Penn's tactics although Penn died long before Trafalgar. Has anybody else heard of Penn?
, in reply to message 17.
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Wednesday, 19th December 2007
GINGERSID,
I did read of an earlier British admiral called William Penn. The book claimed that Nelson in fact used Penn's tactics although Penn died long before Trafalgar. Has anybody else heard of Penn?Ìý
His son William, Jr., of Pennsylvania fame heard of him. So did his next-door neighbor, Sam Pepys.
What was the book you read?
I can't remember the book title, must have been 15 years ago!
Penn sorted out the supplies for the navy and so fell out with pepys. Pepys like everyone else at the time apparently sold low quality timber for the building of the ships.
Because Penn was never fully paid, his son was given an area of America which became pennsylvania
hi
Colingwood was a very talented commander,so much so he was not allowed to go into retirement despite ill-health. I think his abilities are very much underated today.
Vera
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or Ìýto take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Â鶹ԼÅÄ Â© 2014 The Â鶹ԼÅÄ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.