Wars and Conflicts聽 permalink
Every Rank?
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.聽
Posted by OrganettoBoy (U3734614) on Monday, 19th June 2006
Has anyone, in the British Army, Royal Navy or RAF, served at every rank (assuming that Bombadier and Corporal etc are the same rank)?
What about other armies, navies? -
Message 2
Posted by TrailApe (U1701496) on Monday, 19th June 2006
An army chef has probably served every rank.
I'll get me coat........ -
Message 3
Posted by Sabre-Wulf (U2142937) on Monday, 19th June 2006
I'm 99% sure there's a British VC winner in the Army who started as a private and ended up as a General (if not higher) but I can't remember who it was. I'll do some digging. -
Message 4
Posted by Scarboro (U2806863) on Monday, 19th June 2006
I knew a Canadian who enlisted as a private in WW2, earned an officer's commission, made airborne combat jumps into Normandy and across the Rhine, and retired as a brigadier-general. His name was Donald Holmes.
I was told that the Canadian tradition was to promote to major-general immediately prior to retirement (for improved pension), but that in Holme's case they made an exception.
He was a trifle insubordinate. During the Cuban Missile crisis he was a battalion commander. The Canadian PM refused to put Canadian forces on alert (until his defense minister mutinied and did it anyway). Holmes thought the Canadians and British should have been more vocal in support of their American ally, so he decided to rectify the situation personally.
He phoned Castro and Kruschev (and got through to military liaison offices) and threatened to attack them with his battalion. So far, so good.
The calls were made from the officer's mess. It is thought that alcohol was involved.
Holmes then proceeded to call Buckingham Palace to chew out the Queen for not supporting the USA. Unfortunately he had a private number for Prince Philip, the honorary colonel of his regiment, and got through to the Palace.
They found a nice basement for Holmes to command until the Canadian mission in Sinai started going wrong, and they needed a fire-eater to knock heads.
Holmes was a fantastic character. Wasn't British (but was on loan from Canada to Britain for a while), didn't quite get to the top rank, but almost fits your criteria.
Regards
Brian -
Message 5
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Monday, 19th June 2006
I don't know what effect he had on the enemy, but I know the effect he has on me.....
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Message 6
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 19th June 2006
Outstanding post!
I just love the idea of some rather intoxicated Colonel ringing up the Kremlin and threatening to send his boys in! And then to phone Prince Phillip! Genius! -
Message 7
Posted by Erik Lindsay (U231725) on Monday, 19th June 2006
Frank Bourne of Rorke's Drift fame (You may remember him from the movie Zulu) didn't quite make it all the way to the top, but he came close. He began as a private and made it to Lt Col before being retired.
Rising from private to senior officer must have been a rare phenomenon in the 19th century. -
Message 8
Posted by Colonelal (U4541970) on Monday, 19th June 2006
Hello,
Yes I knew a chap called Forsyth who joined as a private and retired a General.
One the of the best soldiers I ever served with, got his arm blown of at Dunkirk survived that then retired and was knocked over by a drunken yob.
Regards
Colonel A Lancaster 11th Hussars
(ritired) -
Message 9
Posted by FormerlyOldHermit (U3291242) on Monday, 19th June 2006
just love the idea of some rather intoxicated Colonel ringing up the Kremlin and threatening to send his boys in! And then to phone Prince Phillip! Genius聽
I wouldn't have been surprised if Prince Phillip had suggested ringing up Kremlin to that Colonel, lol. -
Message 10
Posted by Colonelal (U4541970) on Monday, 19th June 2006
I wouldnt dream of becoming intoxicated lol lol
AL -
Message 11
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 19th June 2006
Only ever happened once in the British Army.
William (Wully) Robertson,born in Lincolnshire in 1860 of Scottish parentage, joined the cavalry in 1877 as a trooper. Rose through the ranks and was given a commission in 1888, finally becoming CIGS and Field Marshall. Died 1933. -
Message 12
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Monday, 19th June 2006
Sabre-Wulf,I think you mean Hector McDonald. Joined the 92nd as a private. After distinguished service in Afghanistan, was given the choice of a VC or a commission. Electing for the commission, McDonald fought in both South African wars and the Sudan, finally becoming a Major General.
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Message 13
Posted by Sabre-Wulf (U2142937) on Tuesday, 20th June 2006
Hmm, that sounds about right. Memory must be going in my old age...
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Message 14
Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Tuesday, 20th June 2006
Didn't one of Napoleon's Marshals start as a private in the ranks? Can't remember which one. Ney?
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Message 15
Posted by Nielsen (U3014399) on Wednesday, 21st June 2006
Re message 1
While not being able to answer the first part of your question, I can answer the second part as it in part refers to Denamrk.
According to the Danish Constitution since 1849, at present found in Paragraph 81, all Danish males are subject to conscription/National Service.
In todays political climate this is watered somewhat down.
By the book, the rule is, that everyone starts as privates, if they have the ability they are chosen for NCO training, the ablest ones are then selected for/volounteer for Officers School, and then according to their abilities, senioity, and the opportunities of their sevice, eventually they reach the top jobs.
This goes for all three services.
Nielsen -
Message 16
Posted by Nielsen (U3014399) on Wednesday, 21st June 2006
One should always preview, Sorry:
"While not being able to answer the first part of your question, I can answer the second part as it in part refers to Denamrk."
last word change to "Denmark"
And "By the book, the rule is, that everyone starts as privates, if they have the ability they are chosen for NCO training, the ablest ones are then selected for/volounteer for Officers School, and then according to their abilities, senioity, and the opportunities of their sevice, eventually they reach the top jobs."
change "senioity" to "seniority".
Nielsen -
Message 17
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Friday, 29th February 2008
Sabre-Wulf,
I'm 99% sure there's a British VC winner in the Army who started as a private and ended up as a General (if not higher) but I can't remember who it was. I'll do some digging.聽
You are quite correct. Message 12, I thought you meant Hector McDonald, however I came across the story of Luke O'Connor from Roscommon who joined the army as a private, won a VC at the Alma and retired as a Major-General.
Connor -
Message 18
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Triceratops
I think you're right, although Robertson was commissioned from Squadron Sergeant Major, and so was never a Warrant Officer - so a pedant might say he didn't quite hold every rank. But I'm sure the OP isn't that picky.
John Harding joined as a private, but I think was a Corporal when commissioned, so mised out of sergeant and Warrant rank, but he did do all the commissioned ones.
Frank Bourne's Lt Colonelcy in 1918 was that unusual. He had declined a line commission after Rourke's Drift (the 24th were short of officers at the time) because he couldn't afford it. Waited until he could get a "Quartermaster's Commission" - didn't involve command positions).
In peacetime, the usual ceiling was Major ( a few Lt Cols), but in WWI a large number of Regular SNCOs were commissioned; many became Lt Cols, and commanded regiments.
Several of Napoleon's Marshals had been NCOs in the pre-Revolution Army, Ney being one, but I think they may have jumped some rungs on the way up. -
Message 19
Posted by U10765351 (U10765351) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
I am not sure...
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Message 20
Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Not quite the same but the history of the ROC describes the ROC members who were attached to the Navy on D-Day to identify any aircraft.
One was a retired General who in the ROC has an equivalent to the lowest rank in the RAF and whilst on board ship they were put in the Petty Officers' mess and nominally classed as that rank.
MB -
Message 21
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Damn. That should have read Frank Bourne's Lt Colonelcy WASN'T that unusual.
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Message 22
Posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13) (U8719631) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
marshal Andre Massena started out as a private then bace a marshall. I think Ney may have been similar.
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Message 23
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
On the RAF side, Arthur Harris served as a Private (bugler) in the Rhodesia Regiment for 6 months in SW Africa. But when he came to England, having been discharged when that campaign ended, he was directly commissioned into the RFC. So, left out all the other OR ranks.
MRAF Lord Cameron was originally inducted as an Aircraftsman (AC II), but for flying training, so he immediately became an "Under Training" Sergeant Pilot - the rank being confirmed on qualifying as a pilot. He was commissioned from Sergeant, so was never an LAC, SAC, Flt Sgt or WO.
Have absolutely no idea about the RN.
On the US side, I know Jim Gavin originally joined the Army as a private, and got to at least Corporal, possibly Sergeant, before being admitted to West Point. He made it to Lieutenant General, not quite all the way, but close. I think there are other US officers with a similar record. US posters may have an idea? -
Message 24
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Triceratops - #11.
It was indeed as a private to Field Marshal who was a Trooper in my old regiment of 16th Queen鈥檚 Lancers (Scarlet Lancers) rising through the ranks to(Sqdn ?) Sgt Major who was then commissioned into the 3rd Dragoon Guards 鈥 served and moved through the Officer ranks to Major in India - Kashmir and Afghanistan. Name of William 鈥淲ULLY鈥 Robertson. Born in Lincoln 1860 to Scottish parents.
After being severely wounded in Afghanistan he recovered to marry a General鈥檚 daughter 鈥 which no doubt helped him along with his career as shortly afterwards he returned to attend Staff College in 1896, as Lt Col.
He was then transferred to the intelligence service of Gen Robert鈥檚 army in South Africa, and by 1907 he was Brigadier Chief of Staff to Gen Smith Dorrien, 1910 saw him as Commandant of the Staff College with the rank of Major General.1914 served as QM General to the BEF in France 鈥 1915 as C.O.S to FM French, in December of that year he became C.I.G.S until 1918 when he had a fight with Lloyd George鈥 Winston Churchill had a hand in his promotion to Field Marshal and he had various roles as GOC in Germany etc until retiring with a pension of 10,000 GBP and a baronetcy, as Haig was given 100,000 GBP and an Earldom ! Robertson never commanded a field army
He died suddenly in 1933 and is buried in a small cemetery in London -
Message 25
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Trooper Tom,
Thanks for the extra info on F-M Robertson.
Raybans,
A quick check on wiki shows that both Massena and Ney started their careers in the ranks.As Napoleon said every soldier has a Marshall's baton in his knapsack.
LW,
During the American Civil War, the reverse happened when politicians,like Ben Butler,were commissioned as Generals. Men with little or no military experience given command of Divisions and Corps, sometimes Armies.
Trike. -
Message 26
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Trike - so what was new there ? - I had the impression - now and then - that they were still doing it in WW2 - promoting Generals who had no idea of miltary ways - certainly clueless on strategy !
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Message 27
Posted by 2295wynberglad (U7761102) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Ney! Ney surley not ney. Sorry about that think you could be wright. Also How about Dumas, I think he became a high ranker.
Wilf -
Message 28
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Saturday, 1st March 2008
Tom,
No matter how bad you thought some of the WW2 Generals were, they must have had at least some time in the army.The political generals of the ACW,were Congressmen one day, in charge of 20,000 men the next.
Trike.
PS Do you have anything else on Robertson? I was wondering if his family were originally from Dundee. The city of Jam, Jute and Journalism. Robertsons were well known as a major jam producer and anyone who has read the Sunday Post will know "Oor Wullie". Was F-M Robertson the original "Oor Wullie"? -
Message 29
Posted by englishvote (U5473482) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
I don鈥檛 know of any soldiers that have started at the first rung and made it to the very top, but I will mention one that went up and down.
Percy Hobart went through the normal process of promotion as an officer, he was very successful as a leading thinker on tank tactics and employment. He made it to Maj General in command of the 7th armoured Division in Egypt in1940.
Because of his unconventional views and abrasive attitude he was then forced into retirement.
His next rank was Lance Corporal in the 麻豆约拍 Guard (at the time called the Local Defence Volunteers or LDV), defending his home village in case of German invasion, at which he seem to excel as well because he was quickly promoted to area commander.
Fortunately for the allies he was reinstated in the Regular army and placed in command of the new 11th armoured division, which he turned into one of the best divisions in the British army.
He was then given the job of forming the 79th Armoured Division in preparations for the Normandy landings. The specialised vehicles became known as 鈥淗obart鈥檚 Funnies鈥, and were instrumental in the success of the D-Day operations. Not bad for a LDV Lance Corporal. -
Message 30
Posted by ElizaShaw (U10750867) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
I thought Bernardotte was a seargeant in the French army pre-Revolution, wasn't he? (dim memories!) so wouldn't he have started life as a private originally?
As for Nielsen, well, I'm shocked, shocked, that thesons of gentlemen should be required to serve as common soldiers. Disgraceful! Now, that would NEVER happen in the British army!....
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Message 31
Posted by englishvote (U5473482) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Yes of course Bernadotte, private to King of Sweden, not bad for a Frenchman.
According to David Chandler, Bernadotte enlisted as a private soldier in 1780 and became a Marshal in 1804. -
Message 32
Posted by ElizaShaw (U10750867) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
I wonder, has any monarch come from humbler origins (bastardy apart)(and we All Know Who That Is, Don't We, True English Folk!!!!)
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Message 33
Posted by flipacross (U9997641) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
LostWeekend wrote:
In peacetime, the usual ceiling was Major ( a few Lt Cols), but in WWI a large number of Regular SNCOs were commissioned; many became Lt Cols, and commanded regiments.聽
I cannot remember his name as I do not have the book any more, but in 'The War the Infantry Knew', JC Dunn, the MO of 2 Bn RWF, mentions a CSM who was commissioned and later commanded a Brigade. It might have been as acting Brigadier though. Still it has prompted me to order the book.
Also,
Several of Napoleon's Marshals had been NCOs in the pre-Revolution Army, Ney being one, but I think they may have jumped some rungs on the way up.聽
reminds me of Sir John Elley KCB, the son of an innkeeper who enlisted as a trooper in the Blues (Royal Horse Guards) in 1789. I don't think he went through every non commissioned rank though as he obtained a cornetcy (2nd Lt equivalent) in 1791. He served in Flanders in the campaigns from 1793-5 and became a Lieutenant in 1796, rising to Lt Col in the Regiment in 1806 (Wiki has 1808 but I'll go with the date in the Army Service and Commissions book of 1820). He served throughout the campaigns in Portugal and Spain and at Waterloo as Assistant Adjutant General to the Cavalry. Although this was a staff position, he seems to have participated in just about every major action going, including leading the Household Brigade during the heavy cavalry charge at Waterloo. He was made a Colonel in the Army in 1813, a Major General in 1819 and Lieutenant General in 1832. He didn't quite make it to (Field) Marshal but then hardly anyone did; before Wellesley was made a Field Marshal after the battle of Vittoria, it was a rank held only by the Commander in Chief of the Army.
So although it was hardly typical it shows that private soldiers could rise to the top even at a time in which most people would consider the rigid social structure would have kept the lower orders firmly in their place. -
Message 34
Posted by ElizaShaw (U10750867) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
If a private soldier 'came into a bit of money' say, could they buy themselves a commission? Could anyone of 'low civilian status' buy themselves a commission and so 'automically' joing the officer class?
Or were they somehow, mysteriously, blackballed....?
I'm curious to know whether someone 'low born' could actually use the purchasing system to lever their way up the social ladder. -
Message 35
Posted by Nielsen (U3014399) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
According to this old thread
I don't see the purchase of commissions and promotions as being a prerogative of the upper classes.
According to Bernard Cornwell's 'Sharpe' series the only things required was the ability to read and write, and the money to buy a cornetcy.
Thus, Eliza, money could buy you up some steps on the social ladder ... (unless you had the bad luck to be maimed or killed underway, always a risk in that profession). -
Message 36
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
EV ....
Hobo also created the 1st Armoured Div in the Desert but upset the G.O.C. at the time - I think it was Finlayson - Gordon - who did'nt want Hoho anywhere near him - finally forced Hobo out -
When Hobo was asked by Alanbrroke to come to the War Office to talk about this new 79th Div ... he asked " what uniform shall I wear - that of a Major General or a Lance Corporal" - he got the job ! -
Message 37
Posted by flipacross (U9997641) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
The mention of Sharpe prompts me to point out that commissions were not only obtained by purchase, especially when a major war was going on. In his 'Wellington's Army in the Peninsular', Michael Glover observed that during the Peninsular War, only about a fifth of commissions were obtained by purchase. Somewhere around five percent were by promotion from the ranks (like Sharpe) and a similar number went to volunteers, who served initially with the rank and file but messed with the officers until a vacancy became available.
The vast majority though, went by patronage which for the first step of obtaining an initial commission, essentially entailed a senior officer or notable civilian recommending the aspirant to the Regiment's or Battalion's Colonel. Progress through the ranks could then be made by merit although this was tempered by seniority which meant that in peacetime, there were an awful lot of rather old junior officers without the money to buy the next rank waiting for a position to become available. During the wars against Napoleon of course, these became available rather more frequently. On campaign, food and accommodation (such as it was) were provided and each battalion had its baggage train junior officers with, from memory, one animal allocated to carry the luggage of two subalterns so the lack of a private income was not as much of an issue as it would be in barracks in peacetime. That is not to say it didn't come in handy for those who had it of course. -
Message 38
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Trike -- more on "Oor Wully "
Trike 鈥
I note that you too have fallen for the myth of Roberston鈥檚 Jams and Marmalades being made at Dundee 鈥 not so as they originated in Paisley near Glasgow at around the 1910 era 鈥 quickly being established as a well favoured line of products and opening factories in Glasgow and London as early as 1914 with the 鈥淕olly鈥 appearing in the early 鈥20鈥檚.
They have been in the wars lately as their new owners 鈥 Premier Foods 鈥 have decided to close the main factory in Manchester and move to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire and leave hundreds of Man. United supporters without jobs 鈥 no doubt Fergie will get the hair dryer out again !
This is not unusual as HP sauce has been moved from Aston in Birmingham to the wilds of Nottingham鈥.. what next one would ask ?
The noted Jams and Jellies of Dundee were made by the equally famous
Keillor company owing to the proximity of the Carse of Gowrie with it abundance of strawberries and raspberries.
The Jam making Robertson family finally settled near Bath and enjoyed a long retirement, with no apparent connection to either the Sunday Post鈥檚 鈥 Oor Wullie鈥 or the Field Marshal鈥. There is however a fairly long winded blurb 鈥 with miniscule reference to Wully鈥檚 parents here 鈥..
d=1 -
Message 39
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
LOst W/end-
In the Cavalry a Squadron Sergeant Major (SSM) is a Warrant Officer 11(WO11) and the Regimental Sergeant Major is a Warrant Officer 1 ( WO 1)- consequently Field Marshall "Wully" Robertson did in fact hold, a warrant rank ! As he was commissioned from the rank of SSM . -
Message 40
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Tom
This is my carelessness - Robertson was a Troop Sergeant Major in 1885 - the Squadron organisation was not adopted until the end of the century.
The rank was the equivalent of Colour Sergeant - the only Warrant Officer was the Regimental Sergeant Major. The rank of WO II was only introduced when, in the Cavalry, troops were combined into Squadrons, and then, later, for the Infantry, when two-platoon Companies were combined into 4-platoon companies.
So, I stand by my point that Robertson never held Warrant rank.
LW -
Message 41
Posted by Triceratops (U3420301) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Tom, Message 38
Many thanks for your reply.
Trike. -
Message 42
Posted by flipacross (U9997641) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
In the Cavalry a Squadron Sergeant Major (SSM) is a Warrant Officer 11(WO11) and the Regimental Sergeant Major is a Warrant Officer 1 ( WO 1)聽
That is how it has been since 1915 when WOI and WOII grades were formalised. Before that RSMs had been classed as Warrant Officers since the Cardwell reforms of 1881. Prior to then the term Warrant Officer was used of people such as the paymaster, surgeon and schoolmaster.
Now here's the bit I'm not too sure of. Prior to 1915, infantry Battalions only had the one Sergeant Major as the role of CSM was handled by the Colour Sergeant whereas cavalry regiments had had SSMs, and also Troop Sergeant Majors, since the early nineteenth century.
Does anyone know if these SSMs were also classed as Warrant officers between 1881 and 1915? If they were then Robertson, who was commissioned in 1888 would have been one, but if not, he wouldn't. -
Message 43
Posted by Preacher (U2899850) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Although not promoted to Field Marshal rank, how about the extraordinary military career of TE Lawrence - "Lawrence of Arabia"?
He was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenantinto the British Army on intelligence duties at the outbreak of WW1. He was promoted eventually to Lt-Col., but wielded an influence on his "arab" area of operation way higher than his rank: F-M Allenby and (eventual-)King Feisal accepted his advice on strategy. On his resignation from the Service after Faisal was enthroned, Lawrence was offered the position of Viceroy of India, which he declined. (Arguably, viceroy was a higher rank than Field Marshal, since the Indian Army was at the viceroy's disposal).
In 1922, he served in the lowest rank of the RAF. Ordered out of the RAF, he joined the Royal Tank Corps as a private under the name TE Shaw. He subsequently was allowed to rejoin the RAF - as a lowly aircraftsman - thanks to influence in high places (Winston Churchill among his supporters). He was killed in a motorcycle accident in 1935, aged 46. -
Message 44
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Flipacross
My understanding is that for most of the C19th, cavalry regiments were organised into troops, only forming squadrons (groups of troops) when on active service. The troops each had a Troop Sergeant Major, while (presumably) the senior one becoming Squadron Sergeant Major in the field.
There was a reorganisation of the cavalry into permanent squadrons in the late C19th (can't pin down the date), when SSM became a permanent post. The infantry didn't follow suit (by merger of the existing 8 companies into 4)until well into the early years of the C20th (1912?), when CSM took over from Colour Sergeant as the senior NCO in a company.
But all of these were sergeants, including SSM and CSM - the only Warrant Officer was the RSM in both infantry and cavalry - until WOII was introduced.
So Robertson, as a TSM was a sergeant, not a Warrant Officer. But missing out one rung in the whole climb from Trooper to Field Marshal isn't bad going (and, of course, a sign of his potential). -
Message 45
Posted by ElizaShaw (U10750867) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Speaking of TE Lawrence 'downsizing' to a ranker, did any of the 'gentlemen rankers' escape being damned from here to eternity but instead 'make good' again and get back into the officer class?
-
Message 46
Posted by RedGuzzi750 (U7604797) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Lawrence was a hell of a interesting fellow, and was one of my select breed; the lifelong motorcycle addict.
If there is a heaven, he is there pushing "Boa" past the ton at night on the London road.... -
Message 47
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Sunday, 2nd March 2008
Eliza
Kipling's Gentlemen rankers were not former officers, of course, just gentlemen sunk too low.
But, there is the classic case of Lt Col Mainwaring, of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Cashiered for agreeing to surrender during the retreat in 1914, he joined the French Foreign Legion, was wounded and awarded the Croix de Guerre, and was reinstated and restored to rank after the war by the King. -
Message 48
Posted by flipacross (U9997641) on Monday, 3rd March 2008
LostWeekend (msg 44)
Thanks for clearing that up. -
Message 49
Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Monday, 3rd March 2008
Flipacross & Lost W/end
Not really all that clear as it was - apparently - Queen Victoria in 1879 relating to the Household Cavalry - had Corporal Major's promoted to be Warrant Officer 2's - no doubt the rest of the Cavalry regiments - apple polishers all - followed suit until the order # 70 of l915 regularised the rank of W02.... that being so then Robertson would have been - probably unofficially and pedanticly perhaps a W02 ? -
Message 50
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 3rd March 2008
Tom
Possibly, but Grierson's "The British Army", published in 1899, shows only two Warrant Officers for Household Cavalry Regiments (the RSM and the Bandmaster), the same as for Cavalry of the Line.
So, I don't think Corporals of Horse became WOII's in 1879. What the Widow at Windsor may have instructed was that they were to be regarded as Sergeant-Majors - which at the time was still a sergeant rank. But would have made them senior to their line cavalry equivalents.
LW
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