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Where Eagles Dare

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  I watched this film the other night starring Richard Burton and Clint Eastwood. Great show from Burton. There was scene with a german helicopter in it. Excuse my ignorance but did the germs have helicopters in the war?
  
  Cheers

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Sabre-Wulf (U2142937) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  They certainly had some form of helicopter as they used to use them as spotters on submarines, but these used to be attached to the sub by some form of cable. Don't remember ever reading about them using ones like the one in the movie.
  
  P.S. I love this movie - agree Burton is amazing. Though I can't help but laugh every time I see the Gestapo guy as he looks just like a Thurderbird puppet! Or is that just me...

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  Posted by Sabre-Wulf (U2142937) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  Apparently Germany had a fully controlable helicopter in military service in 1936, the Focke Wulf FW-61, and according to Wikipedia (though they don't give any details) helicopters were used in combat in WW2.

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  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  Thanks Sabre-Wulf. The chopper did look a bit anachronistic. Darren Nesbit is the SS guy who looks like a thunderbird. He was a stalwart of UK tv in the 60s, you can also find him as one of the Number 2's in The Prisoner amongst others...and you're so right, Burton is fantastic, he's like a hurricane in that dinner scene.

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  Posted by Stoggler (U1647829) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  Excellent film. Very few well written, well starred, and intelligent films around these days

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  Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  The Germans used a limited number of helicopters, mainly to rescue pilots shot down behind enemy lines. They also intended to use oner to rescue Mussolini, but it went wrong.
  
  They like to use the 'unusual' stuff for films, I think.

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  Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  Interesting movie. I must have seen it 12 times over the years, but I still haven't figured out the double double double cross bit.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by Little Enos Rides Again (U1777880) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  Probably one of the greatest films of any genre of all time.
  
  I love the scene where Eastwood has an MP-40 smg in each hand and mows down virtually an entire division of the Wermacht over the staircase !!
  
  Completely far fetched as he would have been bl**dy lucky to hit anything fireing like that but great stuff!
  
  I mean why bother with D-Day, just send in Eastwood with his dual MP-40's, wars over lads
  
  The jist of it was Burton was a double agent on the allies side and the other 3 were German double agents along with Colonel Turner.

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  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  One of the few film swhich stuc k pretty closely to the book. Alistair MacLean, the author, was usually pretty accurate in terms of equipment, etc. and I am pretty sure he had a helicopter feature in the book.

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  Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  The two helicopters referred to previously were:
  
  1) Focke Achgelis Fa 233 Drache - Developed from the Focke Achgelis Fa61 of 1936 which was one of the worlds first practical heliopters, this was developed into the Fa 266 which flew tethered in 1939 and free in 1940. It was then the most powerful helicopter built and was developed as a transport for the Luftwaffe. By late 1940 the 266 hornisse had become the Fa 233 Drache (Kite). In spite of delays caused by Allied bombing the operational test stage was reached in the early part of 1942, plans for mass production of 400 machines a month were disrupted but nevertheless small numbers reached combat units including Luft-Transportstaffel 40 which made many notable missions. Development continued after the war in France (as the SE.3000) and in Czechoslavakia.
  
  2) Flettner Fl 282 Kolibri (Humming Bird) - this was the worlds first mass produced helicopter and was the only helicopter to play a significant role in WWII. It was used from surface ships and various land based programs, it was developed from the Fl265 which in 1941 avoided a Bf 109 & Fw 190 in mock combat and saw servive from 1942. Test were also carried out flying from U-boats in 1942 in the Baltic.

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  Posted by DocMike15 (U3167117) on Wednesday, 24th May 2006

  Where Eagles dare is probably not the most thoughful film about WW2, but fun nevertheless...
  As for the helicopter, the Fw 233 (as had already been mentioned), were built for the Luftwaffe, but only three survived the war, and there doesn't seem to be any record of them actually being used in combat. The German navy also had an autogyro which was towed behind a sub.
  The chopper in the film was a Bell 47, which crops up all over 1960's films. In sort of looks oldish, and there were lots of them around. In the same way, they bust up lots of Havards at the end (before being picked up by the Ju52) - again, there were lots of them around, and they sort of look like Fw190's, Zero's , etc.
  
  By the way, the Guardian keeps printing that the general they are being sent to rescue is British - if they had actually being watching the film they would know that he was American.

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  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Thursday, 25th May 2006

  And he wasn't a General either. Although the Germans thought he was a General; and the German spies who were pretending to work for the British but were really Germans thought he was a General. The American agent helping the British (and thereby inadvertently helping the German spies working for the British) thought he was a General (that is, he thought the prisoner was a General, not that he was a General himself). But the British spy who the Germans thought was working for them as a spy in the British Secret Service but was really working for the British and only pretending to work for the Germans, knew the General wasn't a General.
  
  The German spies pretending to work for the British but really working for the Germans thought that the British spy working for the Germans but really working for the British was really just working for the British and wasn't a spy at all, although the German High Command in Italy thought that he was a spy working for them, even though he wasn't. The German officers in the castle, fooled by the British spy who said he was working for the Germans even though he was working for the British, (and was vouched for by the German High Command in Italy who thought he was working for them even though he was really working for the British) thought that the German spies who were pretending to work for the British but were really working for the Germans were actually British spies pretending to be German spies working for the British but really working for the Germans. Obviously, the opposite was true.
  
  Of course, things got a little complicated because, until the British spy who was pretending to work for the Germans even though he was really working for the British and the American agent (who by this time didn't know who we was working for) turned up in the castle, all the Germans thought the British spy was dead. The female British spies pretending to be Germans also thought he was dead. (Actually only one of them was pretending to be German, the other one was German. It is not clear why she was working for the British except that every film needs a buxom female spy. The British female agents pretending to be Germans may or may not have known the prisoner wasn't a General although this wasn't made clear. The German SS officer, however, knew that one of the female British spies pretending to be German wasn't German, although he did not know she was British. Of course, because of his suspicions about the female British spy pretending to be German, he nearly ruined the whole thing until the American agent (who suddenly found out who he was working for) shot him.
  
  At the end of course, the British spy working for the British but pretending to work for the Germans, discovered the true identity of the spy working for the British but really working for the Germans. His cover blown, the German master spy did the honourable thing and threw himself out of the plane without a parachute. So everyone lived happily ever after, especially the American agent who got off with the buxom female British spy (who was probably really German). Of course, everyone who was really working for the Germans did not live happily ever after because they were all dead through being shot, blown up, thrown off cable cars or flinging themselves out of planes without a parachute.
  
  I hope that clarifies things.
  
  P.S. They don't make them like that any more, do they?
  
  

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