Wars and ConflictsΜύ permalink
War between European union and the USA?
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by dovergunner (U2879723) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
What would be the outcome if the two went to war and ideas
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Message 2
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
No one. Everyone would lose.
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Message 3
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
Since no nation in the E.U. has a blue water navy capable of challenging the U.S.; IMO, it would all depend on whether the E.U. could repulse the U.S. invasion. At this moment the U.S. is not volernable to any other nation.
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Message 4
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
"At this moment the U.S. is not volernable to any other nation."
Any nation which is at war with another nation with nuclear capability is vunerable. -
Message 5
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
slimdaddy101: I don't care how many bombs a nation uses against another; if they aren't able to actually occupy the nation, they have accomplished nothing. Remember, it is farther from Denver to St. Louis than it is from Lundon to Berlin. You could place all of Western Europe and place it in the U.S. east of the Mississippi River. I really don't think you understand the huge size of it. It would be the same mistake as Hitler invading Russia. You can advance 1,000 miles and still have 2,000 to go.
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Message 6
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
Hi Jes,
I spent a year touring the States and have some idea of the size of the States. Anyway, to say the US is not vunerable to any other nation is poppycock. The US is vunerable in Iraq, just it was vunerable in Vietnam. That is indisputable.
What I don't think any of us dispute is that the US is militarily massive. But that does not make them immune. Besides if nukes change everything. As I said in my previous post - ANY nation which goes to war with another with nukes IS vunerable. Hence the MAD policy of the cold war years.
You state:
"if they aren't able to actually occupy the nation, they have accomplished nothing"
Which makes sense in a traditional war, but when you nuke a country back to the stone age, you may well want to avoid it for a while. No one would win in a nuclear war. -
Message 7
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Tuesday, 16th May 2006
slimdaddy101: I appologize to you most humbly. When I said we are not vunerable I meant to an invasion by another power or group of powers. I agree about Iraq. I am aftaid we are squandering our power for no reason. I agree with your post. I would love to be able to come back in 200 years and see how all this worked out.
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Message 8
Posted by jonsparta (U3871420) on Wednesday, 17th May 2006
you might get your chance, with all that cloning and other medical advances! lol. one interesting thing to note that on a NATO exercise a few years ago, the RN was leading the NATO forces against a US Task Force. After a month of war games, the US took their main ojection, a small island in the caribbean but at a loss of the flag ship the nimtiz! the RN lost one frigate in the engage meant. no country, not even the USA can afford to lose so heavily.
I believe that amercia finds itself, as the British Empire did at the turn of the 20th century, building large warships and trying to maintain huge fleets around the world. the result will be econmic failure and the decline of america power. (but there is also nodoubt lots more reasons why their power will crumble.) although, as long as they do not get themselves involved in 2 world wars they will last alot longer at the top... -
Message 9
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Wednesday, 17th May 2006
<>
Making plans, dovergunner? -
Message 10
Posted by Scarboro (U2806863) on Wednesday, 17th May 2006
The whole idea of war has changed since the 20th century wars, nuclear, chemical & biological weapons, and mutual assured destruction.
A true "total war" would result in mutual destruction, so it is unlikely. Measuring conventional forces is not terribly relevant.
Imagine conflict like a duel in a martial arts ring. Two opponents using unarmed combat could be compared - and if they fought it could be interesting to bet on which one would win. Today they are both armed with shotguns. The duel now becomes short, uninteresting, and both fighters die.
Todays rivalries are largely unconventional, and include economic, cultural and societal activities in attempting to influence behaviour around the world. The USA is (largely) united. The unity of the EU will be the deciding factor in determining its world influence. -
Message 11
Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Wednesday, 17th May 2006
im surprised buckskinz hasnt appeared yet calling you all idiotic for even considering the possibility that the u.s wont be the premier world power for all eternity...
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Message 12
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Wednesday, 17th May 2006
'War between the European Union and the USA' is the question which itself to sound like the total nonsense.The whole thing mentions me the last hope of schizophrenic Lukashenko.Something like that he keeps on his paranoiac mind.
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Message 13
Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Wednesday, 17th May 2006
What would be the outcome if the two went to war and ideas
Μύ
It would depend on when and where the war was.
If the war were to happen within the next ten years it would be a resounding defeat for the Europeans.
America still has large quantities of men and material on the continent and Britain. Its navies are capable of extreme projection of power, albeit at the expense of abandoning the Indian Ocean and reducing the PAcific fleet even if temporarily.
The technological edge the Americans still poses coupled with their missile technology and missle numbers (thinking cruise and ICBM's without nuc heads) to bombard most of mainland Europe.
Domestically, Britian would either have to abstain from the war or be its first casulty. For the Americans to mount a truly effective war they would need the have close land bases, Ireland is still too far from the mainland, but southern Britain has lots of ports to land ships and is nice and close for troop landings. Britain would be placed in an imposible position, invasion from either the yanks or the 'peans, possibly both, and that is discounting British reactions to either option.
Militarily, Europe is a dogs dinner. There is no effective intregrated Defence force on the continent capable of fighting a war if you remove the Americans from the equation. The Germans have still a conscript army, the Belgians and Dutch forces are small, the French and British not intrgrated in any way. Our navies would be torn apart peice by piece, no combined comand and control, and if the Americans were to gain even partial air supremacy over France then again there are plenty of ports there designed to take large ships.
If you are talking 30 or so years down the line and assuming that the EU has successfully combined a foreign and defence policy with a single Army, Navy and Airforce as opposed to memeber states with their own forces then it is a different story. The EU would have the budget and manpower to build a fleet to rival the American fleet (not sure what the present world navy parity rates are, but I am assuming that at present the US has at least the old RN standard of 4:1, or was that 7:1, damn can't quite remember) With a combined fleet we can keep the war at a distance (ignoring missles) and maybe even contemplate an invasion of North America
The long and short of it though would be a general distruction of the western world. War between the two powers even now would be enough to displace the USA as the sole superpower as she would be if not quite bled white then certainly bled grey by a war in Europe, whilst it would devestate Europe totally. You would see the Indian Ocean basin and the Pacific Rim (or China as she likes to be called) most likely stepping into the gulf. You would also see the end to most international orders like the WHO, UN, G7 etc as most of these are western clubs that would not survive the pressures of their principal members having a pissing contest.
Such a war (esp if fought 30 or so years down the road) might even be enough to change the balance of power in the America's itself, with MExico and Canada (provided they weren't involoved in the war) growing to eclipse the US state?? Dunno on that last one, but you never know
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