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Making Friends On Eastern Front?

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by OrganettoBoy (U3734614) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  It has been stated here over the years (and elsewhere) that the Germans would have been better to be friendlier to the anti-soviet/anti-Stalin feelings in the land they conquered when they invaded the USSR in 1941. The reasoning being that they had a large, untapped, resource they could have used (beliefs notwithstanding).
  
  However, I'm currently reading Laurence Rees's Auschwitz and he states that from the earliest planning the German military knew they couldn't support their armies and they would have to scour the land for food/fodder etc. in the full knowledge that this would create untold hardships in the conquored lands.
  
  So, the locust like behaviour of the German armies could they ever have been a friendly army of liberation?

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by cmedog47 (U3614178) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  From the reading of Hans von Luck's description of the positive initial reception of the invading Germans, I think so but it would have required two things:
  
  1. Germany successfully knock Stalin out of the war sooner by forcing surrender, collapse of the soviet government, or at least it's withdrawel east of the Urals, and
  
  2. That they not be governed by Nazi's, apparently incapable of "friendly".
  
  Kurt

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by cliffgingell (U3761811) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  The Germans had a massive reserve of good feeling in the first weeks of barbarossa..many of the population were victims of Stalins purges and agricultural 'reforms', they were survivors of starvation and regarded the german forces as liberators.
  
  (POSSIBLY)
  IF the germans had recruited the willing army the locals would have possibly given food and other supplies (for instance..Germans ran on horses) then on to the oil fields
  
  Stalin was in enough trouble with the German army as was...imagine the effect of millions of willing recruits...He was ready to run as it was..the party would have gone underground and within a few months it would have been impossible to have found a Communist west of the Urals as the newly liberated Russians purged them helped by the SS.
  
  Only Britain would have stood and we were considered a side show in late 1941/early 1942
  
  Another example of the Nazies starting then loosing the war for Germany. If there is anything wrong with this reading please tell me

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• Message 4

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  Posted by cmedog47 (U3614178) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  I am not well read on that front but thought the Germans did recruit in the occupied territories, but that they also were quite cruel towards the civilian population in supressing the partisans, thereby squandering the initial good-will of many.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  Dazbo44,
  
  Whilst bowing to Laurence Rees and his work he has missed (IMO) the point. If the German Army had invaded the Ukraine and Baltic States as liberators there would have been massive support for the Third Reich amongst the population. A friendly local population is worth an immeasurable amount in miltary terms. If you want a miltary exercise in how to support an army I'd recommend Wellington in the Peninsula and Marlborough. (Apologies I'm severely anglocentric).
  
  The "planners" at OKW were somewhat blinkered by their ideological upbringing. This approach led from the top down (by which I mean Hitler) ensured that the Wehrmacht was forced to plan on the basis of the population being obstructive rather than helpful. To suggest that the population of the Ukraine could be useful was a dangerous personal view in Germany (at the time).
  
  I'm of the view that if the Trojan Horse had foals then horses nowadays would be cheaper to feed. That is to say there were certain forces that drove the Wehrmacht down this path. To ignore these forces is to ignore certain realities.
  
  Cheers AA. (And yes, I haven't made myself any clearer by my last paragraph).

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by cliffgingell (U3761811) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  They did...The SS recruited from Belgum,Holland,France and even 2 Englishmen...(we hanged em and good riddence). The Germans did use partisans in all ocupied territories BUT they could have had a huge army in Russia because it was one country where the population activly hated their government...Unfortunatly they were Slavs (Slaves) and were considered sub human and in the way of German progress...and who would do a deal with animals (NOT MY ATTITUDE) also the Germans were doing very well at the initial stage and didnt consider they needed any help beating Marxist,Jewish sub humans

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  I am not well read on that front but thought the Germans did recruit in the occupied territories, but that they also were quite cruel towards the civilian population in supressing the partisans, thereby squandering the initial good-will of many.Β 
  
  Kurt,
  
  I think the best response is from a Ukranian of the time and I paraphrase.
  
  "When the Germans came we welcomed them, I fought alongside them against Stalin. Then I saw what they were doing. I left and contacted Stalins Partisan Forces and fought with them. Then the Red Army came and I saw what they were doing. I then sat down and thought. I then fought Hitler and Stalin for an Independent Ukraine."
  
  Source: a taped interview from a Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ History TV programme.
  
  Cheers AA.

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  The idea that the Germans could have won over the local population misses the point about the German push to the East. The Nazis wanted to eliminate the Slavic population and take their land. That was the purpose of the war with the Soviet Union.
  
  The anti-Slav viciousness was not an outcome of fighting. It was pre-war policy. The Germans also knew they could not feed their own army and the local population. The Germans planned to take as much resource as the population could produce during the fighting. If the Germans had knocked the Soviets out of the war the German army would then have been used against the weakened population.

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Friday, 12th May 2006

  There was the Ukrainian Insurgent Army already when S.Bandera declared about the recreating of the independent state-Ukraine on 30 of June 1941 in L'viv. But Hitler was in rage and ordered to throw S.Bandera and several other leaders of UIA(UPA) in the concentration camp in Germany.

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