Wars and ConflictsΜύ permalink
YOU are in command....
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Hi guys and girls,
Should you find yourself being selected by time-travellers to command any army in the world and maybe if you can be specific a unit/battlegoup/division - which army would you choose to lead?
A top three would be great although if you have an out and out fav. then feel free to choose it alone - bring it on:
My top three to command would be:
1. Sixth Army, spring 1942 - the world's best armoured force at the timke and included 4th Panzer division - brilliant force.
2. 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile), January 1965 - because lets face it it's cool and I'd love to have led a revoluntiary combat force - trying new things and knowing you were making history and changing the face of war forever.
3. I'm struggling a bit here but I'd also choose the BEF of 1914 - just to see if I could any better and try something new and radical to end the war before the trench-warfare started.
thoughts/comments. -
Message 2
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
1. Isandhlwana
Must have been one impressive sight - Zulu impis in full force against the red lines
2. Seutonius Paulinus against Boudicca
Again - impressive sight watching the legions at their ruthlessly efficient best
2. Battle of Muhi
mongols v heavy Hungarian cavalry - -
Message 3
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
I am a Yank. So my choices are rather biased. I would love to have commanded the Army of Northern Virginia in 1862.
I would have loved to command the German Army during the initial phases of the invasion of Russia.
I would like to have had total command of the Japanese military after December 7, 1941 and before April 1, 1942. -
Message 4
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
"I would have loved to command the German Army during the initial phases of the invasion of Russia."
it sounds harsh but commanding an Army in victory is a hell of a lot easiser than one in defeat - after all you wouldn't fancy commanding Steiner's 11th SS "Division" at the gates of Berlin. -
Message 5
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
But it is during the initial phases of the invasion of Russia the seeds of their ultimate defeat were sowed. I would like the chance to make enough changes to actually win the war. That is the reason for wanting to command the Japanese forces before the Battle of the Coral Sea.
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Message 6
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
But it is during the initial phases of the invasion of Russia the seeds of their ultimate defeat were sowed. I would like the chance to make enough changes to actually win the war. That is the reason for wanting to command the Japanese forces before the Battle of the Coral Sea.Μύ
I'd assassinate Hitler and then institue a proper old-style Prussian military dictatorship - throw out the Communists in Russia and then with loyal Russian troops take over the middle-east.
But in the context of the real war - I'd send the entire German Panzer army in a Northern sweep towards Moscow and hammer the place forcing the Sovs. out of the war. -
Message 7
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
I must admit I have always wondered what might have happened if Hitler had used those SS troops to fight against Stalin rather than tie them up murdering people?
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Message 8
Posted by FormerlyOldHermit (U3291242) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
The Royal Navy at Jutland. We really did cock that up badly so I'd have a shot at making it a British victory, not a score draw.
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Message 9
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
NewcF15,
I'll give it a go.
1. Army of the Potomac - Antietam
2. The Knights Templar, anytime (except after about 1275), especially just prior to the Horns of Hattin.
3. For a change of pace, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Fleet - Jutland. (But can I send Beatty on shore leave first?)
As you can see I like a challenge, the challenge of doing better than the historical commanders. I'm not pretending that these units were the best troops / sailors of their time, yet with a slightly different approach (with 20:20 Hindsight) I think it may be interesting.
Cheers AA. -
Message 10
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
How about then if you fancy a challenge then...conducting air operations over North and South Vietnam (with no presidential oversight), conducting the operations to extract Sixth Army at Stalingrad, conducting Iraqi offensive operations in Kuwait/Saudi Arabia.
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Message 11
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Commanding the British and French tanks in 1940 without control from above, then kicking butt
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Message 12
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
How about then if you fancy a challenge then...conducting air operations over North and South Vietnam (with no presidential oversight), conducting the operations to extract Sixth Army at Stalingrad, conducting Iraqi offensive operations in Kuwait/Saudi Arabia.Μύ
NewcF15,
North and South Vietnam (with no presidential oversight) and with 20:20 hindsight (and no further research) I think I could about manage. Extracting 6th Army from Stalingrad, (providing Hitler has been temporarily / permanently disposed), Ok.
Iraqi offensive operations in Kuwait / Saudi Arabia, no thanks, I like to think I have a chance of winning.
Cheers AA. -
Message 13
Posted by markandmindy_uk (U1668422) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
This'll be controversial....the Argentine navy post-belgrano. no, i wouldn't have run for shore, i would have regrouped, used the ASW capability to the full and tried to take out at least one of the carriers. it would be interesting to see what our RN would have done had the Argentinian navy decided to 'stand and fight' as opposed to running for home.
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Message 14
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
markandmindy_uk,
Controversial, no, interesting, yes. I don't have enough knowledge to comment, but interesting.
Cheers AA. -
Message 15
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
The Royal Navy at Jutland. We really did cock that up badly so I'd have a shot at making it a British victory, not a score draw.Μύ
I forgot about the battle of Jutland. IMO the entire military history of Europe in the twentieth century came down to that afternoon. If Von Hipper had the quahonies to really take on the British fleet. He had the better ships and a better strategy. If they had the foresight to use aircraft, God only know what might have happened. I would love to have commanded the German Fleet that day.
I would also have liked to have led the Persian Army against Alexander. I really think they had the superior force. -
Message 16
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
I forgot about the battle of Jutland. IMO the entire military history of Europe in the twentieth century came down to that afternoon. If Von Hipper had the quahonies to really take on the British fleet. He had the better ships and a better strategy. If they had the foresight to use aircraft, God only know what might have happened. I would love to have commanded the German Fleet that day.
I would also have liked to have led the Persian Army against Alexander. I really think they had the superior force.Μύ
jesw1962,
Yep, good choice, I'll be Jellicoe, you can be von Hipper. I can send Beatty home, you can have a few Albatross W4s?
Darius, well, how did he lose? That takes true genius.
Cheers AA. -
Message 17
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Arnald Almaric: YOu know, I would love to "Game Board" that battle. I would actually like to have a few Durigables (sp) that could carry torpedoes. Also, considering what that one German submarine did to three English Crusiers is just one afternoon, I wonder what 15 or 20 of them could have done if the had been there too.
Anyhow I stand by my my statement that all of the European military history of the twentieth century came down to that afternoon. Germany would never have that chance again.
Darias was, IMO, one of the most inept leaders in history. I grant he had the bad luck to be against what was arguably the greatest military general in recorded history. But the mistakes made by Dirias were huge. -
Message 18
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
hang on - the thread was which army would u choose to lead - NOT what changes you would make !!!
SW - start another thread
ST -
Message 19
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Sorry - NF
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Message 20
Posted by LittleHill (U3038272) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
I would want to command a mongol army along side Genghis Khan during the blitz of khwarezm, it was said that the mongols with 150,000 troops won the Khworezm scattered troops which numbered to 700,000 troops, 400,000 were cavalry the rest were footmen and archers.
LHill -
Message 21
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Arnald Almaric: YOu know, I would love to "Game Board" that battle. I would actually like to have a few Durigables (sp) that could carry torpedoes. Also, considering what that one German submarine did to three English Crusiers is just one afternoon, I wonder what 15 or 20 of them could have done if the had been there too.
Anyhow I stand by my my statement that all of the European military history of the twentieth century came down to that afternoon. Germany would never have that chance again.
Darias was, IMO, one of the most inept leaders in history. I grant he had the bad luck to be against what was arguably the greatest military general in recorded history. But the mistakes made by Dirias were huge.Μύ
jesw1962,
I agree, Jutland was a bit of a no score draw (to use a soccer parlance), and all of European History since 1916 did hinge on it. It would be interesting to refight it with some one as "bloody" minded as you and I.
Darius, well, okay, good choice, you have to show some talent to throw all your advantages away.
Cheers AA. -
Message 22
Posted by LittleHill (U3038272) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
What does IMO mean
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Message 23
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
In My Opinion.
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Message 24
Posted by jesw1962 (U1726423) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Arnald Almaric: I don't blame Jelleco for not going after Von Hipper with everything he had. Helleco was the only commanding office in the whold of WWI who could have lost the entire war in one afternoon. But I have always wished that Von Hipper had been more agressive.
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Message 25
Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
"I would have loved to command the German Army during the initial phases of the invasion of Russia."
it sounds harsh but commanding an Army in victory is a hell of a lot easiser than one in defeat - after all you wouldn't fancy commanding Steiner's 11th SS "Division" at the gates of Berlin.Μύ
I asume you mean Felix Steiners 11th SS Army, which was tasked with breaking the Russian seige of Berlin in April as opposed to the 11th SS Freiwillige PanzerGrenadier Division "Nordland" which actually fought in Berlin.
Anybody interested in refighting WWII battles on their PC's should look into getting the HPS Simulations Panzer Campaigns series of games, there are currently 15 games in the series covering such battles as Kursk, Normandy, the Ardennes, France 1940, Kharkov and I'm currently trying to save the 6th army from being surrounded at Stalingrad. -
Message 26
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Yeah that's the one - Steiners group that was nothing more than a bunch of SS policmen and few young kids - the Nordland though as much as they were SS units do have my grudging respect - after all they fought with a "legion of the dammed" spirit against impossible odds and one of the last EK1's went to a French volunteer for blasting T-34's with a 'faust - he got his medal but was killed before the end of hostilities.
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Message 27
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Arnald Almaric: I don't blame Jelleco for not going after Von Hipper with everything he had. Helleco was the only commanding office in the whold of WWI who could have lost the entire war in one afternoon. But I have always wished that Von Hipper had been more agressive.
Μύ
jesw1962,
Don't get me wrong, I agree. It would have been a "very interesting" naval encounter with both Admirals going "B"%lls Out".
All the Best, AA.
(P.S. I'd win as I'm Jellicoe of the Royal Navy and we're the bestest ever).
Playground talk I'll admit. Cheers AA. -
Message 28
Posted by JIMBOB52 (U3286524) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Would fancy command of the Commonwealth and French forces facing Turkey in WW1. Pretty sure that by the expedient of taking the Turkish army seriously as an opponent from the start and mving only whenr fully ready a differnet leader could have made a amssive difference.
Actually I think it's the one campaign Montgomery would have been ideal for. -
Message 29
Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Yeah that's the one - Steiners group that was nothing more than a bunch of SS policmen and few young kids - the Nordland though as much as they were SS units do have my grudging respect - after all they fought with a "legion of the dammed" spirit against impossible odds and one of the last EK1's went to a French volunteer for blasting T-34's with a 'faust - he got his medal but was killed before the end of hostilities.Μύ
I thought it was, although when it was formed it did consist of more than just "a bunch of SS men and a few young kids", I can give you a list of the divisions if you wish, although I grant you that like all German units at the time they were not all upto strength.
As to the EK1 is that what you mean? Or do you mean the more important medal, the Ritterkreuz? Two Ritterkreuz's were awarded to members of the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division "Charlemagne" on the 29th April 1945, one to Hauptsturmfuhrer Henri-Joseph Fenet, commander of the Sturmbtl 33 and the other one to Untershcharfuhrer Eugene Vaulot who was a Gruppenfuhrer in the division. -
Message 30
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Cheers - will try and find the mention from "Berlin" by Antony Beevor - NF15
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Message 31
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
Cheers - will try and find the mention from "Berlin" by Antony Beevor - NF15
Μύ
NF
dont know if u know - but amazon now have a search facility - if u get the book up u can then do a search on any phrase or word within the book
VERY useful
cheers ST -
Message 32
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 4th May 2006
SOunds cool - but I'm about to leave work - will find the stuff tomorrow - enjoy Friday
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Message 33
Posted by abrazier (U3915690) on Friday, 5th May 2006
My three commands:
1. Gallipoli. A bit more drive, a bit more effort and I'm sure the Turks could have been beaten.
2. Waterloo. Wellington thought it a close run thing and Napoleon had been more on form it would have been closer yet.
3. Leyte Gulf. The Japanese came oh so close but fumbled at the most critical point. -
Message 34
Posted by Mark (U1347077) on Friday, 5th May 2006
I agree on Jutland - the risk was high and while it was a tactical defeat for Great Britain, the German High Seas Fleet never again left port.
1. I too would like to invade the Soviet Union in 1941 with the German Whermacht just for the scale of it. Not turning the population against my forces and not ruining the momentum and logistics by having my formations zig-zag across a thousand miles of steppe would be one of the alterations I would order.
2. The British forces in the Crimea, 1854, just because I couldn't make things worse and to command the redcoats.
3. Not sure for my last pick - Jutland would be a nice change of scene, or commanding the Isaeli armour across the Sinai in the Six Day War. However, I'll go with the defence of Imphal in 1944. -
Message 35
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 5th May 2006
Interesting idea this one!
Three good ones would be to command Bomber Command during the period 1942-45 (take Bomber Harris's job!).
Gaius Julius Caesar at the siege of Alesia, where he crushed the Gauls by besieging them, whilst being besieged by their relieving army! Absolute class!
Lastly, command of the German side at Kursk. How differently could it turn out? -
Message 36
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Friday, 5th May 2006
"Three good ones would be to command Bomber Command during the period 1942-45 (take Bomber Harris's job!)."
Defo. the safest option - even I was commanding Sixth Army I'd be somewhere near the front - Forwards Sixth - to Stalingrad and victory.
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