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ANZAC Day
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by Euergetes (U2891066) on Wednesday, 12th April 2006
In a little under a fortnight's time (Tuesday 25th), Australia (and New Zealand - Caro will crucify me if I forget the Kiwis) will remember the fallen of Gallipoli and those who didn't make it home in other conflicts.
This year there are 3 rather controversial things happening and I was wondering what others on the Boards might think of them.
The first is that for the first time Turkish veterans will be invited to participate in the Melbourne parade. This is due to the special relationship that Turkish and Australian veterans built up subsequent to Gallipoli and was started by some rather kind words by Ataturk.
Rather pointedly, the RSA's said that although Australia enjoyed very close relations with Germany and Japan, their veterans would not be invited.
The second event is the nature of the parade. The last veterans of WW1 died this year. Over the past few years, increasingly a member of the family has been allowed to parade wearing the medals. Many veterans are rather upset by this. It is afterall a remembrace not a carnival. It is not help by the fact that many AFL and League match start almost straight after the ceremonies and people turn up in football colours
The last bit of controvasy is that some veterans will protest against the Howard governments treatment of War Vets during the parade by wearing orange armbands.
I suppose the question I'm posing is what is the purpose of ANZAC day (and Armistice Day etc)?
is it for the survivors to remember or mourn? is it for the State to celebrate the sacrifice or even an act of gratitute? Is it just to remember?
Is it an act of unification for the state - sort of to invoke that ';Blitz spirit?
Should we change our perception and the nature of the event? Who gets to march? I remember watching the Remembrace service at the cenotaph and while there were lots of veterans from WW2, Korea & the Falklands marching, I don't think I saw veterans from Gulf 1, Balkans, NI and all the other conflicts that have been fought -
Message 2
Posted by Brevabloke (U1685837) on Wednesday, 12th April 2006
Let me have a think about this one mate. I have mixed views on ANZAC day, I am fine with it being a rememberance but not any glorification of war. My grandfather used to gather with his mates in Sydney, play two-up and drink large amounts of Tooheys and speak of the old times in Darwin, Timor, etc... At the same time he was sadder, AND happier after that day.....
Scott Carpenter
And wherever they are, all the best to the men of the AIF 12th Ack Ack Battery Darwin , and I'll always remember "Snowy" White playing cricket with me when I was 5......... I hope wherever they are they have a cold beer in thier hand. -
Message 3
Posted by Stoggler (U1647829) on Wednesday, 12th April 2006
I remember the Turkish issue being discussed a lot around last year's ANZAC Day when I was in Australia and remember a very eloquent argument from a Melbourne guy with Turkish ancestry arguing for the Turks to be included, and found it difficult to disagree with him.
I feel a little uneasy about members of family of now-deceased combatants wearing medals, as those medals were awarded to the individuals themselves for them alone, and not for anyone else to wear. I wouldn't even comtemplate wearing my great-grandfather's medals on ANZAC Day as he and he alone won the right to bear them. -
Message 4
Posted by Brevabloke (U1685837) on Wednesday, 12th April 2006
Agreed about that one Stoggler - in which case I suppose one day ANZAC Day parades will cease to be. If it's just a parade of the military who have not served in war then it puts me in mind of the Soviet May Day parades too much. We don't do pompous parades very well.
So just a commemoration day would be fine.
Maybe we should have a day to commemorate the Battle of Milne Bay?? -
Message 5
Posted by wollemi (U2318584) on Thursday, 13th April 2006
In a little under a fortnight's time (Tuesday 25th), Australia (and New Zealand - Caro will crucify me if I forget the Kiwis) will remember the fallen of Gallipoli and those who didn't make it home in other conflicts.
This year there are 3 rather controversial things happening and I was wondering what others on the Boards might think of them.
The first is that for the first time Turkish veterans will be invited to participate in the Melbourne parade. This is due to the special relationship that Turkish and Australian veterans built up subsequent to Gallipoli and was started by some rather kind words by Ataturk.
Rather pointedly, the RSA's said that although Australia enjoyed very close relations with Germany and Japan, their veterans would not be invited.
The second event is the nature of the parade. The last veterans of WW1 died this year. Over the past few years, increasingly a member of the family has been allowed to parade wearing the medals. Many veterans are rather upset by this. It is afterall a remembrace not a carnival. It is not help by the fact that many AFL and League match start almost straight after the ceremonies and people turn up in football colours
The last bit of controvasy is that some veterans will protest against the Howard governments treatment of War Vets during the parade by wearing orange armbands.
I suppose the question I'm posing is what is the purpose of ANZAC day (and Armistice Day etc)?
is it for the survivors to remember or mourn? is it for the State to celebrate the sacrifice or even an act of gratitute? Is it just to remember?
Is it an act of unification for the state - sort of to invoke that ';Blitz spirit?
Should we change our perception and the nature of the event? Who gets to march? I remember watching the Remembrace service at the cenotaph and while there were lots of veterans from WW2, Korea & the Falklands marching, I don't think I saw veterans from Gulf 1, Balkans, NI and all the other conflicts that have been fought
Μύ
ANZAC Day has changed its focus over the years. I first remember it in the 1960s with a lot of WW1 and WW2 veterans still alive and it was really a day for them. The rest of the community used to keep a polite distance. To be honest, I never liked it much - not the marches but the booze up afterwards seemed to unleash a lot of anger. Now I understand better what that was all about.
I have no difficulty with the Turkish community being in the march. They have been extremely patient with the Australia/NZ 'invasion' of Gallipoli each year and I think this is a kind of reciprocal gesture.
It's true we have not built that same relationship with Germany and Japan but I also don't think there is antipathy. The postwar immigration programme accepted Germans as well as many from Eastern Europe who fought with Germany.
I also don't mind the descendants marching - I understand it's to be at the rear behind veterans from the conflicts. It just means that the community has claimed ANZAC Day now to represent the veterans eg of WW1 who are no longer around -
Message 6
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Friday, 14th April 2006
The first is that for the first time Turkish veterans will be invited to participate in the Melbourne parade. This is due to the special relationship that Turkish and Australian veterans built up subsequent to Gallipoli and was started by some rather kind words by Ataturk.
Rather pointedly, the RSA's said that although Australia enjoyed very close relations with Germany and Japan, their veterans would not be invited.
Μύ
Hi Euergetes,
I would say that only the Vets should be marching, and disabled pushed in wheelchairs by their fellow vets. I do not get the thought process that has relatives wearing decorations that they never earned. Only the veteran has the right to wear those medals. If they have them in a display case or something that is acceptable.
Who can forget the heartwarming words from Ataturk to the people of Australia and NZ. That is the difference between the Turks and the rest. The Turks and Australian/NZ vets respected each other. The Turks in general were not war criminals. Can you imagine inviting ex-nazis and Japanese prison guards to a place of honour.
Cheers, Matt. -
Message 7
Posted by wollemi (U2318584) on Monday, 24th April 2006
It's ANZAC Day tomorrow. So perhaps timely to remember Leon Gellert's war poem written after he was evacuated from Gallipoli.
The Last to Leave
The guns were silent, and the silent hills
had bowed their grasses to a gentle breeze
I gazed upon the vales and on the rills,
And whispered "What of these?' and "What of these?
These long forgotten dead with sunken graves,
Some crossless, with unwritten memories
Their only mourners are the moaning waves,
Their only minstrels are the singing trees
And thus I mused and sorrowed wistfully
I watched the place where they had scaled the height,
The height whereon they bled so bitterly
Throughout each day and through each blistered night
I sat there long, and listened - all things listened too
I heard the epics of a thousand trees,
A thousand waves I heard; and then I knew
The waves were very old, the trees were wise:
The dead would be remembered evermore -
The valiant dead that gazed upon the skies,
And slept in great battalions by the shore -
Message 8
Posted by Brevabloke (U1685837) on Monday, 24th April 2006
Well said Wollemi - I always remember the words to "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda", and they come welling up unbidden in my mind on ANZAC day, as do "I was only nineteen" and "The Bloody Fields of Flanders".
And then for some strange reason, a song many of you will not know "Freedom Come all Ye" by Hamish Henderson. -
Message 9
Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Wednesday, 26th April 2006
I was in Cannakele two weeks ago to visit Troy when I came across the whole Gallippoli thing. Being British it is not a part of WW1 that we take much notice of (even tho' British troops fought and died there.) It was the first time I'd come across Ataturk's words regarding the Anzacs and I found them so moving. Even writing this message is starting to choke me. I can see why there is so much affection for the Turks.
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Message 10
Posted by wollemi (U2318584) on Wednesday, 26th April 2006
I was in Cannakele two weeks ago to visit Troy when I came across the whole Gallippoli thing. Being British it is not a part of WW1 that we take much notice of (even tho' British troops fought and died there.).Μύ
And more. There's a part of the ceremony each year at Anzac Cove when wreaths are laid for all the participants.
The French had troops from their African colonies, there were troops from as far away as India and Newfoundland, as well as the Australians and New Zealanders
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