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If Cortes had met Ahuitzotl

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Thursday, 9th March 2006

  I don’t know a huge amount about Ahuitzotl, Revered Speaker of the Aztec (Mexica) empire, but from what I do know he was a pretty aggressive war leader who stood no nonsense. I believe he died after an accident which raises the question of whether, if he had avoided an early death, he would still have been in power when Cortes arrived. From what I have read about Ahuitzotl, I doubt he would have caved in the way Motecuzoma (Montezuma if you prefer) did. Cortes would probably have never reached Tenochtitlan if Ahuitzotl had been around or, if he did, would have been dragged there in chains.
  
  Any experts out there who can shed more light on Ahuitzotl? Anyone got any views on Cortes's conquest?
  

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Friday, 10th March 2006

  Anybody?
  
  Are there any brave souls who are prepared to defend Cortes? Or does everyone agree that he was a lying, murderous, scumbag who effectively destroyed a great civilisation because of his own personal greed?
  
  I've managed to find out a bit more about Ahuitzotl. Apparently he was responsible for doubling the size of the Aztec empire. In the personality stakes, he was probably on a par with Cortes. But at least he wasn't a surrender monkey like Motecuzoma.
  

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Our Man in Mexico (U1661159) on Saturday, 11th March 2006

  Dear Tony,
  
  I think it is perhaps harsh to brand Mexica Monarch Motecuzuma II a β€˜surrender monkey’. Motecuzuma II and indeed Atahualpa Inca simply could not comprehend the threat that faced them and the subsequent Mexica response was slow, hesitant and rather confused.
  
  As the Spanish marched on Tenochtitlan, Motecuzuma II showered them with gifts, this was intended to dismay the Spaniards but instead it drew them on. To the Mexica there was no reason why the Spaniards should attack. The Mexica fought for captives and tribute, with the Spanish having no settlements they had no place in this pattern. The Spaniards sought to kill and conquer, this was a notion the Mexica did not understand. Warfare in the Americas had rules to be abided by, the Spanish acted uncoventially.
  
  This is in no way meant to defend Hernan Cortes, along with William I and Francisco Pizarro is one of the biggest villains in history. As a side comment, have you read the Spanish account of the capture of Atahualpa Inca in Cajamarca Square in 1530? It is possibly one of the most sickening and emotionally moving accounts I have ever read.
  
  Cheers,
  
  Craig
  

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Saturday, 11th March 2006

  Thanks, Craig for a very interesting response. While I take your points about how Motecuzoma reacted to the Spaniards, do you think Ahuitzotl would have reacted the same way? Personally, I doubt it.
  
  No, I haven't read that account, but I can understand your reaction. I have read a pretty detailed account of the conquest and also a superb novel by Gary Jennings (which is what actually go tme interested in the first place). I have to say that the accounts of Spanish actions in South America put me off ever visiting Spain. I know we Brits have some pretty unsavoury skeletons in our closet, but the way the Spaniards behaved in Mexico and Peru was so barbaric it is disgusting.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Our Man in Mexico (U1661159) on Saturday, 11th March 2006

  Dear Tony,
  
  It is perhaps difficult to state how Monarch Ahuitzotl would have reacted, I do suspect possibly the same way due to Ahuitzotl, like Motecuzoma II, not being able to comprehend the threat to posed to him by the Spaniards. This was indeed also true of Atahualpa Inca and Chalcuchima.
  
  Once the Mexica Monarch Moctecuzuma II had been captured the Mexica suffered paralysis allowing the Spanish to consolidate there position in Tenochtitlan and indeed Mexico due to the nature of Monarchial Power. If the Mexica Jaguar Knights and Eagle Warriors after driving the Spaniards out of Tenchtitlan in 1530, had immediatly followed this up they may have driven the Spanish back into the Gulf of Mexico.
  
  Cheers,
  
  Craig

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