Wars and ConflictsÌý permalink
Hitler & his final days...
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by THE-CYCLIST (U3355746) on Saturday, 4th March 2006
I was watching the film Downfall on C4 on Thursay night about the dictator's final days in his Berlin bunker at the end of WWII. Generally, i found the film interesting and informative to someone who hasnt studied WWII history yet (only early history in college, unfortunately!) and came up with a few theories/queries which id like to put across and hear peoples opinions on.
From what i gathered, in his final days, Hitler's state of mind was somewhat fragile, forcing him to make erratic decisions on his military tactics while Russia was invading Berlin.
What do people think would have happened had Hitler not gone this way? Would the Germans have held out, or was the invasion too far gone?
What would Europe be like today? If Things had occurred differently would politics and society in Europe have been shaped differently as a result?
Would National Socialism be more widespread, extensive and prominent, or would it only have been a matter of time before it was stamped out? Because a lot of the German population were certainly convinced it was the way forward.
Niall_T NUIM student. -
Message 2
Posted by nuneatonguitarplayer (U2327933) on Saturday, 4th March 2006
Hitler's state of mind was somewhat fragile Ìý
It was indeed. Caught between fantasy and paranoia. Some say he was suffering the effects of syphilus but nothing conclusive. The tight space in the bunker may have onset delusion too because of course he was directing "phantom" armies. Out of devotion and a mixture of fear his personnel allowed him to continue the charade.
What do people think would have happened had Hitler not gone this way? Ìý
Depends at what point in time. Because of course Hitler was deep in the mire by the end. Any decision he had chosen to make would have been fruitless as soon as the Ruski's started entering the city's boundary
Would National Socialism be more widespread, extensive and prominent, or would it only have been a matter of time before it was stamped out? Ìý
Well just look at the way communism went in Russia... eventually it may well have been stamped out. Have a look at the Hossbach Memorandum for some clues to what Hitler wanted for future Germany in the event of his death. Of course read Mein Kampf too... it is a free download somewhere and is an interesting book, if not slightly boring in places.
Because a lot of the German population were certainly convinced it was the way forward.
Ìý
Don't believe all the propaganda Niall_T. Most of the German population we dead set against war and even more so when they were being bombed out of their homes. They were fans of Hitlers regime to a point. Don't forget the hardship they were in come the turn of the 30's. Hitler to a large degree solved all of it. It is just a shame he rejuvenated Germany's economy with the machnery of war. -
Message 3
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Saturday, 4th March 2006
By the end Hitler was calling in Generals from far a field at great risk to their lives to demote, promote, reinstate and court-martial officers just so he felt in control.
Meanwhile German sub-unit commanders were ringing aroun Berlin phone numbers trying to establish where the Russian troops were.
How is that for delusional?
What's worse (from a purely military view) he could have removed German soldiers from Norway, Courland and Northern Italy back to defend the Greater Reich - maybe not a major difference in what could have been brought to bear but a bet close on another 500,000 highly rated troops esp. those in Courland.
What I really think someone should have done sooner was oipen the front by allowing all the German troops escape Berlin and do a retreat towards the Elbe. -
Message 4
Posted by Lt_Henson (U2436367) on Saturday, 4th March 2006
Hitler was on medication and a cocktail of Drugs.
I can't remeber exactly why, but his doctor prescibed him more and more as he became used to them , finally making him more erratic and unpredictable in the final days of WW2. hope it helps. -
Message 5
Posted by nuneatonguitarplayer (U2327933) on Saturday, 4th March 2006
He was also a vegetarian... just goes to show you what could happen!!!
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Message 6
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Saturday, 4th March 2006
Read somewere that a lot of it was speed and cocaine
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Message 7
Posted by Lt_Henson (U2436367) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Vegitarian? Never heard that before but I would argue against you - God knows what he did!
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Message 8
Posted by Lt_Henson (U2436367) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Im meant Wouldn't argue obviously... lol
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Message 9
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
If downfall was anything to go by, he was too pre-occupied looking at his secretary - How tasty was she?
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Message 10
Posted by THE-CYCLIST (U3355746) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
She was quite hot alright-although the Geraman accent did her no favours! A French or Italian one would have been much more favourable!! even if it would have been out of place in an all-german film!
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Message 11
Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
If downfall was anything to go by, he was too pre-occupied looking at his secretary - How tasty was she?Ìý
you mean the actress who played the secretary right. not the actual secretary who we meet as an old lady. -
Message 12
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Sean,
Indeed, the actress. I've never seen a picture of the real secretary 'in her prime'. -
Message 13
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Niall,
I can easilky overlook the accent. I lived in Germany for some time, and think the German lasses with the exception of Hungary, the sexiest in Europe. -
Message 14
Posted by ToonArmyHolland (U1679153) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Is that Downfall as in the film "Der Untergang"??
if so im gutted - i have been meaning to get a copy for ages (in Holland its only available in german with Dutch subtitles).
i have Sky TV s oif it was that film i will have to look and see if its repeated on any of C4`s other channels.
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Message 15
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Vegetarian, yes indeed, and teetotal, not a good combination. Apparently he could phart like a dray horse, and used to get so 'excited' during some of his speeches he would get..shall we say....aroused.
Of course, that could be just propaganda to ridicule him, but it sounds possible. If I can find the source of where I got that from I'll post again. -
Message 16
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Vegetarian, yes indeed, and teetotal, not a good combination. Apparently he could phart like a dray horse, and used to get so 'excited' during some of his speeches he would get..shall we say....aroused.
Of course, that could be just propaganda to ridicule him, but it sounds possible. If I can find the source of where I got that from I'll post again.Ìý
Plancenoit,
Hitler was, according to those who knew him best, a teetotaller, non smoker, and a vegetarian. (Read Shakespeare for a good description of those people, "Merry Wives of Windsor, Falstaff?".)
Compare him to our great leader during WW2, Churchill, smoker, drinker and a carnivore (well omnivore, I understand he ate vegetables if he couldn't get steak with gammon, together with prawns and a few racks of lamb).
Apparently Churchill "pharted", so I'm inclined to believe Stalin did.
And I'm going nowhere with this, so I'll sign off.
Cheers AA. -
Message 17
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
AA, a very good point. Perhaps if the great leaders of time could have got together and settled the whole conflict over a plate of Beans and a few glasses of fizzy pop, all that fighting business could have been avoided. The great "Decibels for Domination" conference at Reykjavik, 1941. Wouldn't the world be a happier place?? But then there's damage to the ozone layer, and I still think Der Fuhrer may have had an advantage being from the Vaterland.
Ok, Ok, I'm going........ -
Message 18
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
Plancenoit,
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO,
See you in the bar?
Cheers AA. -
Message 19
Posted by nuneatonguitarplayer (U2327933) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
I have also read that he was extremely fond of Black Forest Gateau as well and would gorge on it until stuffed... make himself sick and then gorge again
Sorry if I am 'regurgitating' information people have already heard/read...
...and may I be forgiven for my bad joke -
Message 20
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Sunday, 5th March 2006
I have also read that he was extremely fond of Black Forest Gateau as well and would gorge on it until stuffed... make himself sick and then gorge again
Sorry if I am 'regurgitating' information people have already heard/read...
...and may I be forgiven for my bad jokeÌý
I'll forgive you CovTeacher,
except I think you owe me an answer on a thread?
AA, (goes off to inspect his "BOOK"of Grudges).
(Ignore me CovTeacher, I am in a petty mood).
Cheers AA. -
Message 21
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Monday, 6th March 2006
Hitler, as well as being a tee-totaller and veggie was also reputed to be a virgin.
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Message 22
Posted by Stephen_C (U3355758) on Monday, 6th March 2006
slimdaddy101 where are your sources coming from are they reliable?
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Message 23
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Monday, 6th March 2006
Hi Stephen,
Although I was not privvy to Hitlers bedroom antics, Speer in his Nurenburg inerviews (Nurenburg - the Nazi elite in Allied hands by Richard Overy) noted Hitlers lack of interest in the opposite sex, (with the possible exception of his neice.) It was Speer belief that Hitler was a virgin and never consummated his marraige with Eva Braun.
I had heard this previously somewhere else before, I'm sure it was one of those enduring rumours about Hitler that will never really be resloved. -
Message 24
Posted by Amphion (U3338999) on Monday, 6th March 2006
Hitler's medication started about the time of the assasination attempt in July 1944. Once he was hooked he was hooked. As for fancying his secretary, bearing in mind he was with Eva Braun in his bunker, and only agreed to marry her before he put a gun in his mouth, probably makes him one of the least likely people to win husband of the year award 1945, already!!!
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Message 25
Posted by Monkeydad (U3393796) on Monday, 6th March 2006
I was watching the film Downfall on C4 on Thursay night about the dictator's final days in his Berlin bunker at the end of WWII. Generally, i found the film interesting and informative to someone who hasnt studied WWII history yet (only early history in college, unfortunately!) and came up with a few theories/queries which id like to put across and hear peoples opinions on.
From what i gathered, in his final days, Hitler's state of mind was somewhat fragile, forcing him to make erratic decisions on his military tactics while Russia was invading Berlin.
What do people think would have happened had Hitler not gone this way? Would the Germans have held out, or was the invasion too far gone?
What would Europe be like today? If Things had occurred differently would politics and society in Europe have been shaped differently as a result?
Would National Socialism be more widespread, extensive and prominent, or would it only have been a matter of time before it was stamped out? Because a lot of the German population were certainly convinced it was the way forward.
Niall_T NUIM student.
Ìý -
Message 26
Posted by Monkeydad (U3393796) on Monday, 6th March 2006
Niall,
You raised some interesting questions as a result of watching Downfall. The film's producers will be chuffed!
By the time the Red Army were closing on Berlin the German army was exhausted with hugely depleted reserves of manpower, (hence Hitler Youth brigades fighting) and little evidence of their once legendary logistical capabilities. Hitlers final mental collapse as depicted in Downfall had little discernible impact on the outcome of the war except in extending the misery of the people of Germany.
His constant meddling in military affairs and the in-fighting amongst elements of his high-command had fatally wounded the ability of Germany to win the war from quite any early stage (Barbarossa 1941) but right up until the end the German fighting machine put up incredible resistance on all fronts and most frantically against the vast numerical superiority of the Red army. -
Message 27
Posted by nuneatonguitarplayer (U2327933) on Monday, 6th March 2006
except I think you owe me an answer on a thread? Ìý
What answer do I owe you AA? I usually click on 'Your Discussions' when logging on to see if I have any unanswered threads I have posted in... please refresh my memory or point me in the direction it is in and I will be happy to answer it
Cheers -
Message 28
Posted by Lt_Henson (U2436367) on Monday, 6th March 2006
The girl was hot.
if so spoke german well or not,
I'd like to see a bit more,
cuz she looked like a ****
but she died in the middle of a war.
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