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were the Americans justified in dropping the atom bomb?

• Message 1.Ìý

  Posted by Grumpyniall (U3354668) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  Two sides of the argument
  1-Yes it ended the war quickly without mass invasion and use of dwindling allied resources.
  2-Or was it crime against nature and an attempt to irdicate a whole race?
  What do you think?

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  Bottom line - USA used the bomb to tell Stalin to behave himself post ww2.

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  if they hadnt have used the bombs then theyd have had to invade japan. the losses would have totally screwed both america and the british empire. incidentally, japan surrendered cos the russians declared war, not because of the bombs

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by snazzyangel (U3243081) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  Considering what Japan did to Pearl Harbor the had it coming when they bombed the island and killed the US servicemen. What did our servicemen ever do them to deserve that kind of fate?

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  I think the US was justified dropping the A-bombs on Japan but it was just chance that Nagasaki got hit as the primary target for that mission was covered in cloud - how fate can play a hand.
  
  I also read that Hiroshima would have been damaged much worse if the Fatboy bomb had been dropped on it instead of Littleboy.
  
  It was said by Curtis LeMay that if Japan had have won the war then he would have been tried as a war criminal for what the USAAF did to Japanese cities - for as much as hype that the A-bombs got the delibrate low level fire-bombing of Japanese cities caused more damage and killed more people and LeMay knew it.
  
  I think every nation has a duty to protect it's soldiers in any way possible within the lengths of the international codes governing war - to do anything else in tantamount to participating in murder.

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  Considering what Japan did to Pearl Harbor the had it coming when they bombed the island and killed the US servicemen. What did our servicemen ever do them to deserve that kind of fate?Ìý
  
  thats a crap way to think. i would use stronger terminology but i cant. how does a few thousand servicemen compare to 40 odd thousand civvies?

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by JIMBOB52 (U3286524) on Thursday, 2nd March 2006

  When it comes to the atomic bombing in japan I can only imagine the massive allied casualties if the home islands were invaded and the continuing civillian deaths from conventional bombings and eventual invasion. added to this the probability of a rapidly expanding Soviet zone of control if the war had continued, where Stalin could show his usual gentle touch with his new asian client states.
  Not to detract form the horror of the bombing but perverse as it seems the atom bomb campaign probably saved innumberable lives, and may have stopped an otherwise inevitable 3rd World war.
  
  

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by ___benald (U1896027) on Friday, 3rd March 2006

  i think it was awful to drop the A-bomb on Japan, in short it was cheating, the poor Japanese didn't have a chance and Pearl Harbour was nothing compared to Hiroshima, at Pearl Harbour at least the Japanese turned up in person and didn't opt for the easy and cowardly instant mass-murder option!
  
  yet still they shouldn't have declared war in the first place, any casualties from the war were brought upon themselves (although this didn't quite justify Hiroshima)

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by pegasuseddie (U518215) on Friday, 3rd March 2006

  When the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan I was a member of a small advanced party from the British 6th Airborne Division stationed at the Jungle Warfare Centre in the Nilgiri jungle on the Mysore/Madras border in southern India being given a quick course in jungle warfare.
  Our instructors - officers and senior NCO's with considerable experience in this type of warfare - said they did not know why they were wasting their time because they understood that when the rest of our Division arrived in India we were to be immediately dropped onto the Japanese mainland where, they assured us in no uncertain terms, we would have to kill EVERY MAN, WOMAN and CHILD that we came across because, if we didn't, they would do all in their power to kill us!
  We lightly equipped Airborne troops let out a very loud cheer when the Japs surrendered and we were not needed for the invasion of Japan!

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• Message 10

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  Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Friday, 3rd March 2006

  Must have been something for you to think about that you might have had to do that?
  
  Ever wewonder what might have happened if the US had not dropped "the bombs" and the invasion would have gone ahead? If it had been as apocalyptic as predicted how do you think it would have affected post-war Japan (presuming the post war started in say 1947?)
  
  NewcFalcon

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Friday, 3rd March 2006

  pegasuseddie
  
  I have to say that your arguement makes total sense.
  
  Cheers AA. (I do have a question to ask regarding the Pegasus Bridge operation on D Day, could you say if Wagger Thornton stopped a Mk IV Panzer, ot Hanomag, or a Somua (or Char B) with his PIAT.
  
  I will buy your book,
  
  Cheers AA.

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  When it comes to the atomic bombing in japan I can only imagine the massive allied casualties if the home islands were invaded and the continuing civillian deaths from conventional bombings and eventual invasion. added to this the probability of a rapidly expanding Soviet zone of control if the war had continued, where Stalin could show his usual gentle touch with his new asian client states.
  Not to detract form the horror of the bombing but perverse as it seems the atom bomb campaign probably saved innumberable lives, and may have stopped an otherwise inevitable 3rd World war.
  
  Ìý
  
  im not denying that point, i agree with you FYI, its just the "its perfectly justifiable to kill 40,000 civvies for the loss of military staff at a military installation" i dont like

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• Message 13

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by snazzyangel (U3243081) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 13.

  Posted by snazzyangel (U3243081) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  Ìý
  
  Then the Japs shouldn't have bombed Pearl harbor and start the war!!!
  
  If one country bombs another you can bet there would be war. JUST IMANGINE IF IT HAD BEEN YOUR COUTRY THAT WAS UNDER ATTACK!!
  
  I BET THEY WOULD HAVE RETALIATED OR FOUGHT BACK.

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• Message 15

  , in reply to message 14.

  Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  Hi Snazzy Angel - I can see you point as yes if you are going to create a weapon to save your soldiers lives then you must use it.
  
  But what even if the Japanese attacked the US by suprise there is an accepted risk that being in the armed forces of your nation means you could get killed - being a citizen in a nation that was ruled by an autocratic ruler with a military hell bent on expansion then you wouldn't have had much chance to avoid such incidents as the a-bomb.
  
  I know some US civilians were killed on OAhu island but these were really the exception in the war in the Pacific.
  
  US bombers attacked Japanese cities at low level with heavy bombers and unleashed millions of tons of incedaries and HE and like the RAF (i'm not saying we didn't do similar in Germany) did nothing much that dehouse vast numbers of Japanese civilians.
  
  The dropping of the A-Bomb was an admission in my opinion of the US govt. saying that 2/3 years of bombing was a waste becuase we could have waited and dropped these two wonder-weapons and the whole war would have been over.
  
  I know we would have needed to hit armaments factories and harbours but this was legit military targets.

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• Message 16

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  Two sides of the argument
  1-Yes it ended the war quickly without mass invasion and use of dwindling allied resources.
  2-Or was it crime against nature and an attempt to irdicate a whole race?
  What do you think? Ìý
  
  
  
  This has been asked before and I always reply with the same message ;
  
  "Again, from this distance in time, and with the benefit of hindsight it is easy to condemn the use of the atom bomb as barbaric and senseless. But that would be wrong. Absolutely wrong.
  
  One could actually say that, that statement is criminally wrong
  .
  Of course some 75,000 Japanese men, women and children were killed or maimed when it happened. But had the conventional war been continued with an invasion of the Japanese mainland by Allied forces the death toll would have been far greater over a greater period of time.
  Think of those 75,000. Multiply it by 20 and you begin to approach the sort of casualty figures that would have been borne by the Americans, British and Commonwealth troops plus, of course the Japanese themselves.
  With the dropping of the atom bomb the war ended within days.
  And that is an unarguable fact.
  
  It just is not possible for anybody who wasn’t around to suffer the hell of war, air attacks, concentration camps, or the untold millions who gave their lives, or their loved ones lives or entire families who simply vanished off the face of this earth to appreciate the joy and indescribable relief at the news of that bomb and with it, the end of the war.
  
  It was indeed a time for great rejoicing. And one final thought for those critics. What would have happened had Germany or Japan developed the bomb before America (and it was a close-run thing), it would have been ludicrous to argue that they wouldn’t have used it on us"
  
  

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• Message 17

  , in reply to message 16.

  Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  Usually when this questions comes up there are a few replies from servicemen who are convinced they would not be alive today if the atomic bombs had not been dropped. They would have either been killed in the invasion of Japan or died (or been killed) in PoW camps.
  
  MB

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• Message 18

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Mick_mac (U2874010) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  See
  
  

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• Message 19

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by pegasuseddie (U518215) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  pegasuseddie
  
  I have to say that your arguement makes total sense.
  
  Cheers AA. (I do have a question to ask regarding the Pegasus Bridge operation on D Day, could you say if Wagger Thornton stopped a Mk IV Panzer, ot Hanomag, or a Somua (or Char B) with his PIAT.
  
  I will buy your book,
  
  Cheers AA.Ìý
  Hi AA
  'Wagger' Thornton and the tank at Pegasus Bridge. Many myths have grown around this event and 'Wagger' is said to have knocked out every kind of monster tank. The truth is that it was a lightweight old French Renault tank, which is why it 'brewed up' so easily. A dodgy PIAT bomb would not have done that kind of damage to a heavy German tank.
  Cheers
  Denis E

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• Message 20

  , in reply to message 16.

  Posted by snazzyangel (U3243081) on Saturday, 4th March 2006

  Two sides of the argument
  1-Yes it ended the war quickly without mass invasion and use of dwindling allied resources.
  2-Or was it crime against nature and an attempt to irdicate a whole race?
  What do you think? Ìý
  
  
  
  This has been asked before and I always reply with the same message ;
  
  "Again, from this distance in time, and with the benefit of hindsight it is easy to condemn the use of the atom bomb as barbaric and senseless. But that would be wrong. Absolutely wrong.
  
  One could actually say that, that statement is criminally wrong
  .
  Of course some 75,000 Japanese men, women and children were killed or maimed when it happened. But had the conventional war been continued with an invasion of the Japanese mainland by Allied forces the death toll would have been far greater over a greater period of time.
  Think of those 75,000. Multiply it by 20 and you begin to approach the sort of casualty figures that would have been borne by the Americans, British and Commonwealth troops plus, of course the Japanese themselves.
  With the dropping of the atom bomb the war ended within days.
  And that is an unarguable fact.
  
  It just is not possible for anybody who wasn’t around to suffer the hell of war, air attacks, concentration camps, or the untold millions who gave their lives, or their loved ones lives or entire families who simply vanished off the face of this earth to appreciate the joy and indescribable relief at the news of that bomb and with it, the end of the war.
  
  It was indeed a time for great rejoicing. And one final thought for those critics. What would have happened had Germany or Japan developed the bomb before America (and it was a close-run thing), it would have been ludicrous to argue that they wouldn’t have used it on us"
  
  Ìý
  
  I agree with you. Thank you for getting my point across.
  
  I've tried to say the same thing in a previous post.
  
  This one's for you.

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• Message 21

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Erik Lindsay (U231970) on Sunday, 5th March 2006

  if they hadnt have used the bombs then theyd have had to invade japan. the losses would have totally screwed both america and the british empire.Ìý
  
  
  That's a odd thing to say, and I suggest that it's wrong for the most part. An invasion unquestionably would have cost tremendously in lives and equipment for everyone involved, but it certainly would not have ''totally screwed'' America, and the British Empire was doomed in any case, as events have demonstrated. Certainly the allied casualties would have been enormous, but it would have been much worse for Japan. That country and its people would have been devastated, probably the population virtually wiped out -- and that includes civilians. The entire nation was enlisted to kill the invaders -- women, children, oldsters -- EVERYONE. The dropping of the bombs gave the Japanese a way out of the war while still maintaining a semblance of honor -- ''how could any country fight against such weapons?''
  incidentally, japan surrendered cos the russians declared war, not because of the bombs.Ìý
  Rubbish. The Russian invasion did shake the Japanese and underscored, even to the most diehard of the warmongers, that the end was near. But it was not what stimulated the surrender -- it was definitely the atom bombs. The Russian invasion had little to do with the emotions of those in control of the Japanese government. The country had been literally beaten to its knees, almost exclusively by the Americans. Its empire was no longer extant, its cities and countryside was under constant attack by American aircraft and warships, and the naval and merchant ports of Japan were filled with rusting bollards where only spiders tied their lines. The population was starving.
  
  The army commanders didn't give a damn about the Russians or the potential invasion by American and Commonwealth troops...they were planning to fight to the end. The Emperor was the one who decided that the end had come and informed the population that it was time to ''endure the unendurable'' . The fire-bombings by the B-29's had very nearly forced him to demand a surrender earlier, but it was the dropping of the a-bombs that was the final catalytic agent.
  
  One gets the feeling that you would say almost anything to avoid giving the Americans any credit for winning the Pacific war. I suggest you spend a little more time studying what actually went on instead of pumping out unsupported personal opinions.

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