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Gallipoli

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by 123stopthatabc (U3275257) on Saturday, 25th February 2006

  now this has to be the master of all 'what if's'
  
  as Churchill said "Constantinople, is to the east, what Rome, Paris and London, all roled into one, is to the west"
  
  so if we had beaten the Turks at Gallipoli and then taken the whole of Turkey, where would we be today ?
  
  for starters the war would have ended quicker and we almost certainly wouldn't have had a second world war, not to mention a cold war, and the russians would have been our longtime allies
  
  where would this have left the US ?
  
  would we still have the British Empire today ?
  
  as a side question, was beating the Turks at Gallipoli a real possibility ? could we actually have done it, even with hindsight ?
  
  i have a couple of theories, but let's see what you think
  
  cheers
  

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by chalsealauren145 (U3301564) on Sunday, 26th February 2006

  HI 123stopthatabc
  
  Remember me?
  
  Whats new?/////

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by JIMBOB52 (U3286524) on Sunday, 26th February 2006

  i dont think the intention was to take the whole of turkey so much as to knock her out of the war. i'm pretty sure the Anglo-French resources committed to the campaign were large enough to be an occupying force.
  Lets say the ottomans are knocked out of the war early, maybe throught the shelling of constantinople. In those circumstances any peace treaty would be more likely to be lenient to the turks as the aim was to knock them out ot the war rather than get territorial aims. thats form the Western percpective of course, Russia may have been more easier to buy off. Thsi early victory would hopefully leve the mifddle eastern ottoman army mainly intact, and the army tied up with rebellions there.
  With Turkey out of the war support could be given to serbs and Ruomania and would take pressure off Russia, hopefully keeping thme in the war.
  I'm looking at a best case sceanrio here but a WW1 where the Turks are knocked out early (or even better never join the conflict) Greece, Bulgaria and Romania are either Entente allies or neutral, and Russia stays in the war could lead to a post war settlement with no Soviet union, a clearly defeated Germany and a war seen to be won by the UK, where Kitcheners original plan for a war ending with Britains armed forces at its peak leading to a very different history of the 20th century.
  
  
  

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by JIMBOB52 (U3286524) on Sunday, 26th February 2006

  argh I meant that the Anglo French forces were NOT large enough to be an occupying force.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by chalsealauren145 (U3301564) on Sunday, 26th February 2006

  oHHHH......i see

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Tas (U1753225) on Monday, 27th February 2006

  Hi 123,
  
  Firstly, the fact that Turkey got into WW1 on the side of the axis was a bad mistake for Turkey. Turkey's traditional ally had always been Britain (remember the Crimean War?) Unfortunately there had been a coup d'etat in Turkey that brought into power a hot head with no brain for real politik, Anwar Pasha. He started Turkeys alliance with Germany. That was a very bad mistake by the Turks because it lost them their entire Middle Eastern Empire to Colonel Lawrence and Arab Guerrillas.
  
  The Gallipoli Campaign as envisaged by Churchill and a brilliant British Admiral (Keys?) was to force the Dardanelles through some old British Battleships many of which were expected to be lost in the attempt. However, when one or two battleship started to sink the admiralty had cold feet and stopped the forcing by naval means and switched to an expedition using the army. The result was a long stalemate and eventual defeat at the hands of the poorly equipped but brave Turkish army and the brilliant military leader Kemal.
  
  Tas

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 27th February 2006

  Re: message 6.
  
  Dear friend Tas, it was Admiral Lord Keyes of Zeebrugge and Dover.
  
  There is a commemorative plaque of the raid on Zeebrugge and it nows stand at the Zeebrugge Mole.
  
  
  
  Warm regards,
  
  Paul.

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