Wars and Conflicts听 permalink
Terrorist Safe Havens
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.听
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2006
I put this on the "Terrorist/Freedom fighter" post but Matt thought that it should have a seperate post (thanks for the vote of confidence)
***
If the US have said organisations like Al-Qaida have been based (and I don't believe it) in Iraq so hey presto we'll invade there and they were based in Afghanistan (and I do believe they were there) and we've invaded Afghanistan then why didn't...
The UK government invade the Republic of Ireland overtly and with a full military taskforce engage the IRA arms dumps to destory them?
I know the SAS, MI5 and MI6 must have been sneaking about over the border and I know that the UVF attacked Monaghan and Dublin (in a purely sectarian nature of course) but it is something I've always wondered.
It's not even as if we found the arms dumps and blew them up with fixed explosives or maybe with an LGB/guided missile (just like what happened in Sudan).
Any thoughts feel free to blast away...
NewcFalcon -
Message 2
Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2006
I like the way you call the thread "Terrorist Safe Havens.
Are you by any chance referring to the UK?
Yes, Akhmed Zakaev is still here in the UK, so are Robert Fiore, Massimo Marsello.
I am not certain about Moutaz Alhallan Dabas.
I believe Faryadi Sarwar Zardad could be in jail.
Hade Soleimanpour was out on a 拢750.000 bail but did skip the country.
Is the UK a safe haven? -
Message 3
Posted by Grand Falcon Railroad (U3267675) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2006
Hi Dirk,
I guess you could call it that - but I think we do try our best to get people in jail if they are "terrorists" or "Freedom fighters" or "whatever's" - like we did imprison a lot of Loyalists as well as Provo's.
I think what I mean is we tend to cooperate with other countries (rightly or wrongly) in getting rid of terrorists and I know Eire did too on occassions but as for launching a full scale invasion into Eire which was a terrorist safe haven (known to the IRA as being "off-side") we never did in any large scale. We could have traced arms dumps and destroyed them (although a poster said that the Brits hoped the IRA would kill themselves when they opened booby-trapped stashes) and then the IRA wouldn't had their arms or explosives.
I mean we even bombed Libya because of the terrorist threat in the eighties but NEVER Eire.
NewcFalcon -
Message 4
Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Thursday, 23rd February 2006
Good Morning NewcFalcon,
A bit wet in the North East today but no problem.
Anyway you did mention that we tend to cooperate with other countries but if that is so why does the British government not extradite some of the terrorists wanted in other countries
Some of the names I did mention in my reply to you fall in that catagory.
For instance, Hade Soleimanpour( an Iranian diplomat) is wanted for being involved in a bomb explosion killing 89 people.
Akhmed Zakaev wanted by the Russian government for murder and terrorist activity.
Believe me there are quite a few who have been given asylum here in the UK.
The reason given by the British government for not extraditing wanted persons to foreign countries is the old excuse of:
"No fair trial and/or possibility of a death sentence".
So what , they were prepared to kill when committing acts of terror.
Is the British government possibly under the impression that persons like this can be usefull as bargaining pawns in cases of British nationals being held, kidnapped etc? -
Message 5
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Thursday, 23rd February 2006
re, the booby trap stashes. It ws me that mentioned. it. I thought i'd better point out that this was something I was told. wether it was factual, or wishful thinking I dont know.
I do know that something similar was done in the boer war british patrols would leave doctored ammunition behind on camp sites hoping that the boer would pick it up and use it
Also if you can belive the papers some weapons were found and bugged so the movements of the weapons could be tracked -
Message 6
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Thursday, 23rd February 2006
bOSTON NEW YORK AND ANYWHERE IN THE USA were terrorist havens until 9/11 and terrorism was not in fashion ??
IRA terrorists led the Boston parades and heros until 9/11 -
Message 7
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Friday, 24th February 2006
bOSTON NEW YORK AND ANYWHERE IN THE USA were terrorist havens until 9/11 and terrorism was not in fashion ??
IRA terrorists led the Boston parades and heros until 9/11听
Hi,
I am trying to make some sense out of your post. Are you saying anywhere or indeed specific American cities were a safe refuge for terrorists? and that IRA terrorists were on parade in ST Patrick day parades? I don't want to be putting words in your mouth but, if this is what you mean would you please tell me what your talking about.
Cheers. -
Message 8
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 24th February 2006
sorry - written in haste
good day buckskinz
what i meant was that the USA was a safe haven for IRA terrorists for a long time and i dont believe we (GB) ever had a successful extradition
this was because of the large irish population and the IRA were regarded as freedom fighters against the British occupation
in fact one year a convicted IRA terrorist led the st patricks day parade in Boston/new york (cant remember which)
also millions of dollars were raised for the IRA via Noraid and a lot of this was undoubtably used for arms
after 9/11 - because the USA required our support - official opinions seemed to harden against the IRA and i believe Gery Adams was prevented from visiting
it would have been nice to have this support a lot earlier -
Message 9
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Friday, 24th February 2006
Should I or shouln't I?
-
Message 10
Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Friday, 24th February 2006
bOSTON NEW YORK AND ANYWHERE IN THE USA were terrorist havens until 9/11 and terrorism was not in fashion ??
IRA terrorists led the Boston parades and heros until 9/11听
Hi,
I am trying to make some sense out of your post. Are you saying anywhere or indeed specific American cities were a safe refuge for terrorists? and that IRA terrorists were on parade in ST Patrick day parades? I don't want to be putting words in your mouth but, if this is what you mean would you please tell me what your talking about.
颁丑别别谤蝉.听
the IRA did indeed have considerable suppoort in the U.S. then again, its better to have the average yank supporting your enemy, and not some tart in their government (refering to the pro argie in the upper echelons trying to get the us to side with the aformentioned argies) -
Message 11
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 24th February 2006
buckskinsz
not sure if i understand this one - sorry please clarify -
Message 12
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Friday, 24th February 2006
bOSTON NEW YORK AND ANYWHERE IN THE USA were terrorist havens until 9/11 and terrorism was not in fashion ??
IRA terrorists led the Boston parades and heros until 9/11听
Hi,
I am trying to make some sense out of your post. Are you saying anywhere or indeed specific American cities were a safe refuge for terrorists? and that IRA terrorists were on parade in ST Patrick day parades? I don't want to be putting words in your mouth but, if this is what you mean would you please tell me what your talking about.
颁丑别别谤蝉.听
the IRA did indeed have considerable suppoort in the U.S. then again, its better to have the average yank supporting your enemy, and not some tart in their government (refering to the pro argie in the upper echelons trying to get the us to side with the aformentioned argies)听
Thanks, that sure clears things up. -
Message 13
Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Friday, 24th February 2006
-
Message 14
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 24th February 2006
bOSTON NEW YORK AND ANYWHERE IN THE USA were terrorist havens until 9/11 and terrorism was not in fashion ??
IRA terrorists led the Boston parades and heros until 9/11听
Hi,
I am trying to make some sense out of your post. Are you saying anywhere or indeed specific American cities were a safe refuge for terrorists? and that IRA terrorists were on parade in ST Patrick day parades? I don't want to be putting words in your mouth but, if this is what you mean would you please tell me what your talking about.
颁丑别别谤蝉.听
the IRA did indeed have considerable suppoort in the U.S. then again, its better to have the average yank supporting your enemy, and not some tart in their government (refering to the pro argie in the upper echelons trying to get the us to side with the aformentioned argies)听
yes - good point - but the USA did give us considerable aid in the Falklands - new sidewinders - satellite intelligence - and the promise to lend us an aircraft carrier if needed -
Message 15
Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Friday, 24th February 2006
could easily have swung the other way though...probly would still have won, just wudda took longer i mean, we have the best armed forces in the world (though not the best equipped)
-
Message 16
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 24th February 2006
could easily have swung the other way though...probly would still have won, just wudda took longer i mean, we have the best armed forces in the world (though not the best equipped)听
why do you think we have the best armed forces ??? -
Message 17
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Friday, 24th February 2006
This thread is picking up!!
-
Message 18
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 24th February 2006
add to it then !! -
Message 19
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Friday, 24th February 2006
Let him answer your message #16, then I will give you a proper answer to your message #8. It may be tomorrow though. Almost time for the evening meal here.
Matt. -
Message 20
Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 25th February 2006
bOSTON NEW YORK AND ANYWHERE IN THE USA were terrorist havens until 9/11 and terrorism was not in fashion ??
IRA terrorists led the Boston parades and heros until 9/11听
Hi,
I am trying to make some sense out of your post. Are you saying anywhere or indeed specific American cities were a safe refuge for terrorists? and that IRA terrorists were on parade in ST Patrick day parades? I don't want to be putting words in your mouth but, if this is what you mean would you please tell me what your talking about.
颁丑别别谤蝉.听
the IRA did indeed have considerable suppoort in the U.S. then again, its better to have the average yank supporting your enemy, and not some tart in their government (refering to the pro argie in the upper echelons trying to get the us to side with the aformentioned argies)听
yes - good point - but the USA did give us considerable aid in the Falklands - new sidewinders - satellite intelligence - and the promise to lend us an aircraft carrier if needed
听
Unlike the French if you believe some of the stories circulating after the Falklands War.
MB -
Message 21
Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Saturday, 25th February 2006
i seem to remember that the frogs sided with us (didnt want us kicking their asses!) so the argies wont bu owt off them any more
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Message 22
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Saturday, 25th February 2006
I read somewhere (Secret War in the Falklands ??) that French technicians were still assisting the Argentines with their exocets even as the Conflict was being fought !!
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Message 23
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Saturday, 25th February 2006
hi Buckskinz,
still waiting for your answer on how the USA was not a safe haven for the IRA for 20 years
will be interesting -
Message 24
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Saturday, 25th February 2006
yes well if u end up relying on the french - its risky
-
Message 25
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Sunday, 26th February 2006
hi Buckskinz,
still waiting for your answer on how the USA was not a safe haven for the IRA for 20 years
will be interesting 听
Well stalter I was waiting for my caveat to be fulfilled, but I guess the cat has Marduk's tongue. If I appear reluctant its because this has been covered many times before, but, just for you here we go again.
sorry - written in haste
good day buckskinz
what I meant was that the USA was a safe haven for IRA terrorists for a long time and I don鈥檛 believe we (GB) ever had a successful extradition
this was because of the large irish population and the IRA were regarded as freedom fighters against the British occupation听
There was an instance of a single guy in California that worked the system to his advantage. He was an escaped IRA member and because he showed his human rights would be violated he beat the extradition. On him, I forget his name I believe you may have a beef. Lets put that to one side for now. You described the US as a safe haven for terrorists. Please tell me by name and reference one individual listed on the US or Brit terrorist watch list that has found refuge in the United States. It's your statement, now reference it for me, and I don't mean one of your leftie Sunday rags.
in fact one year a convicted IRA terrorist led the st patricks day parade in Boston/new york (cant remember which)听
When you can reference 1/ Who 2/ Where/ 3/ When the convicted terrorist led a St Patricks day parade in the US I will follow up on it.
also millions of dollars were raised for the IRA via Noraid and a lot of this was undoubtably used for arms听
Millions of dollars were indeed raised by NORAID, and every time it was investigated they could prove nothing went to the IRA. It went to the widows and kids of slain IRA members, who they claim were cut off from benefits by your govt. If you can show me different, I鈥檒l respond to it.
after 9/11 - because the USA required our support - official opinions seemed to harden against the IRA and I believe Gery Adams was prevented from visiting
it would have been nice to have this support a lot earlier
听
The US required British support for what? Americans do the fighting, the rest of you are the cops and window dressing. Do you have any idea how many Brits died on 9/11? Or in the London attack. If you can't understand why some Irish Americans hate your guts its because of what your army did to Ireland and their grandparents. I know you don't know about that, but it鈥檚 a fact. It was nothing for a British soldier to kill an Irish guy in cold blood in front of his family. Then mutilate the remains. I do not mean in the last few decades. NORAID was breaking no US laws. Would you like me to tell you about British trade with North Vietnam when we and Australians were at war with them? Also the leadership of the IRA were damn Communists. Do some reading on your own. Check it out.
Cheers, Matt. -
Message 26
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Sunday, 26th February 2006
Cheers Buck (u dont mind me using ur first name
interesting points - just preparing my retaliation - i mean points for further discussion - but there has been major footie and rugby action today -
presume ur in the US?
its a pity no response on #16 - would have liked to hear your take - go for it anyway !!
cheers - stalteriisok -
Message 27
Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Monday, 27th February 2006
Buckskinz
ive not been on since saturday afternoon, and ive forgotten what i was blathering on about! -
Message 28
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Monday, 27th February 2006
Hi Buckskinz 鈥 to answer your points ref #25
(sorry didn鈥檛 realise this has been done to death before)
When has a convicted IRA man led a parade in the USA:-
2002 One of America's biggest St Patrick's Day parades is going ahead despite a bitter split over the presence of a convicted Sinn Fein/IRA bomber.
Brian Pearson was chosen by the AOH to be grand marshal of the giant parade in Pearl River, 25 miles from New York.
Brian Pearson was arrested in 1976 and jailed for 12 years for his involvement in a bombing outside a Royal Ulster Constabulary barracks.(he was allowed to settle in the USA as a court decided that it was a political crime)
(I actually thought there was an earlier incident but cant find it!)
The IRA leadership were all communists:-
PIRA statement 1970 -"Irish freedom will not be won by involvement with an international movement of extreme socialism."
Statement by Joe Cahill to Noraid 1970- "they (the IRA)would deliver...a republic without socialist or communist ideas.."
I think you are getting confused with the Official IRA which is indeed a left wing organisation
Noraid only donated money to help families of killed IRA members:-
In 1977 the organisation was made to register as an agent of PIRA by the American Government
And you are wrong in your assumption that families of IRA terrorists could not claim benefits - there is no legal way this could happen
The USA doesn鈥檛 harbour terrorists :-
October 1997 - The United States of America (USA) State Department decided to drop the Irish Republican Army (IRA) from its list of 'terrorist' organisations. One affect of this decision was to allow funds to be raised on behalf of the IRA
2005 House of Commons 鈥 Boris Johnson right wing Tory MP in a Public Meeting ref Extradition treaty with the USA
鈥淭he US Congress has not ratified the Treaty. It does not apply to the US. In the history of extradition, throughout the UK problems with Northern Ireland and the US help of those Irish, not a single IRA suspect was extradited from the US to the UK.鈥
I could probably cite individuals if u want
The US Government does not need British support for the war on terror
You are absolutely correct that the USA does most of the fighting - not suprising considering the awesome power and size of the US military 鈥 but it still requires support I feel 鈥 and as you yourself put in one of your posts 鈥
鈥淲e hold ourselves to a higher standard and at the moment that fact is being questioned by countries whose opinion matters to us.鈥
Sorry the 100 dead Brish troops in Iraq weren鈥檛 in fact fighting 鈥 perhaps you should have told us they weren鈥檛 needed
You are wrong in assuming that I have no idea of the History of GB in Ireland 鈥 many years ago I read about the Civil rights issues 鈥 unbelievable in the UK in 1969 !!
And I do realise the savagery that we inflicted on generations of Irish 鈥 mind you we didn鈥檛 treat our own (GB mainland citizens ) too much better).
That鈥檚 part of the whole problem 鈥 they still hate us for Cromwell鈥檚 excesses !!
We went into Ireland in 69 to stop a civil war which the outnumbered Catholics would probably have lost 鈥 and the troops were cheered in by the Catholics
Nothing would please me more than a united Ireland 鈥 all living in peace 鈥 BUT it aint gonna happen!
And I have had personal experience of the troubles.
A good mate (paratrooper) had his foot blown off with a nail bomb
My cousins husband was shot in the head as he was talking to her on the phone
My mates dad 鈥 a caretaker lost an arm and leg when the canteen at the Marines school of music was bombed
I am in no way anti American 鈥 but I was disappointed that the USA did not seem to give us their wholehearted support in ending this tragic conflict
Cheers 鈥 Staleriisok -
Message 29
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Monday, 27th February 2006
Buckskinz
ive not been on since saturday afternoon, and ive forgotten what i was blathering on about!听 -
Message 30
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Monday, 27th February 2006
Hi stalteriisok,
Hi Buckskinz 鈥 to answer your points ref #25听
Your right about the Grand marshal of the parade, you鈥檙e a bit confused about New York City and New York State I think. The parade was in Pearl River New York State. This is an Irish/American town where Pearson had lived for more than 20 years, with the anti- British sentiments that you acknowledge the reasons for. There are places in the world where Britain is not at all popular. Irish/American communities usually fall into this category for obvious reasons.
Brian Pearson supports the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. It calls for IRA disarmament, police reform, and political power sharing between Protestants and Catholics, with stronger connections between the North and the Irish Republic.
PIRA statement 1970 -"Irish freedom will not be won by involvement with an international movement of extreme socialism."
Statement by Joe Cahill to Noraid 1970- "they (the IRA)would deliver...a republic without socialist or communist ideas.."
I think you are getting confused with the Official IRA which is indeed a left wing organisation听
You鈥檙e quoting Joe Cahill addressing an American audience. What else would he say. "Actually we are all a bunch of Commies" ? I agree the official IRA are a left wing organization. To the left of Stalin a bit.
Noraid only donated money to help families of killed IRA members:-
In 1977 the organisation was made to register as an agent of PIRA by the American Government
听
Yes, and? They registered to get their donations tax exempt.
The USA doesn鈥檛 harbour terrorists :-
October 1997 - The United States of America (USA) State Department decided to drop the Irish Republican Army (IRA) from its list of 'terrorist' organisations. One affect of this decision was to allow funds to be raised on behalf of the IRA
2005 House of Commons 鈥 Boris Johnson right wing Tory MP in a Public Meeting ref Extradition treaty with the USA
鈥淭he US Congress has not ratified the Treaty. It does not apply to the US. In the history of extradition, throughout the UK problems with Northern Ireland and the US help of those Irish, not a single IRA suspect was extradited from the US to the UK.鈥
I could probably cite individuals if u want听
In 1997 the militant wing of the IRA was not active. Also anything a British MP has to say is hardly going to be unbiased.
The US Government does not need British support for the war on terror
You are absolutely correct that the USA does most of the fighting - not suprising considering the awesome power and size of the US military 鈥 but it still requires support I feel 鈥 and as you yourself put in one of your posts 鈥
鈥淲e hold ourselves to a higher standard and at the moment that fact is being questioned by countries whose opinion matters to us.鈥澨
That is indeed my quote. It's to bad you have taken it out of context. That was as you know in reference to GITMO.
Sorry the 100 dead Brish troops in Iraq weren鈥檛 in fact fighting 鈥 perhaps you should have told us they weren鈥檛 needed 听
Any death is a tragedy. In war 100 deaths is hardly significant in the big picture. You have near had that many casualties at some soccer games.
You are wrong in assuming that I have no idea of the History of GB in Ireland 鈥 many years ago I read about the Civil rights issues 鈥 unbelievable in the UK in 1969 !!
And I do realise the savagery that we inflicted on generations of Irish 鈥 mind you we didn鈥檛 treat our own (GB mainland citizens ) too much better).
That鈥檚 part of the whole problem 鈥 they still hate us for Cromwell鈥檚 excesses !!
Cheers 鈥 Staleriisok
听
I never said "you have no Idea of your history" You do not have to go as far back as Crommwell. Try the Black and Tans.
Cheers, Matt.
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